Primary school dilemma - art and music importance?

[klw777]

Hello!

I’m hoping to get opinions about the importance of art and music in primary school. My DS current primary school (yr 2) offers one session a term (as far as I can tell!( with a whole day devoted to art but no regular weekly lesson. Music is limited to singing in the hall with occasional percussion involvement. School is very academically minded and not so hot on pastoral care or creativity in the traditional sense.

My DD is due to start school in September so I need to apply without the week and choose a school.

The dilemma; the school attached to her preschool has a weekly or twice weekly art lesson, a weekly music lesson, forest School and a good Ofsted report. Her brother’s school is outstanding with Ofsted but has its flaws as mentioned!

What experience of these subjects do you have in your primary schools and do you think it matters? To put her in the attached school would mean a move for the little chap which he isn’t so keen on but I’ve had several issues with their pastoral care of him and a lack of a response on several occasions to issues such as wetting, anxiety (his) and other things.

I’m a recent single Mum and this feels like a huge decision so any help would be appreciated. Phew, sorry about the essay!

The pastoral care would bother me most.
There may be no formal art lessons, but you'll probably find "creativity" linked to topics (see current thread running).
Music is easy to supplement yourself.

A balanced approach is important. As is good pastoral care and not ramping on the pressure so hard that children develop mental health problems.

IMO.

However, many people on Mumsnet think it's just about achieving the best SATs scores possible and if you want them to do Art you can take them to a club yourself between SPaG and Maths homework.

@redskyatnight I can’t see that thread, could you point me in the right direction please? They say they do work creativity in topic work but I haven’t seen much evidence of that. Doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened though!
@lowdoorinthewal1 My primary focus always will be and always has been a happy child; mental health is of course key to that. They’re both bright children but there’s no way I would ever feel comfortable pressuring them academically. I’ve looked for local art clubs but they are far and few between. Not sure I could stretch to starting one myself!

Is there a reason that you didn’t choose the attached school for DS originally?

Pastoral care would be the biggest issue for me especially when they’re so little

Misguided, placed too much importance on Ofsted report and exhausted with a small baby. All factors in potential wrong initial decision! He’s not unhappy there, I just see there might be benefits to an all round approach to education not somewhat blinkered academia being the driving force.

Sorry I didn’t mean to imply that you made the wrong choice, just to see if there were any big negatives then that either still are an issue or aren’t

The dcs can have music lessons and do plenty of art at home....

If your only reason for sending your younger child to a different school is because of the music/art lessons, I would say don't do it.

What is taught and how often is always subject to change and you can't be sure they'll teach that much music and art always. I'm a teacher and what we teach and how often changes every year! Last year we taught 2 hours or science a week, 1 hour computing a week and 1 hour topic a week. They've now been blocked into days once a half term so we can teach more English and Maths We used to have two music teachers to cover our PPA. The school ran out of money so they got rid of one music teacher so now my class only have 40 mins music a week.

More and more schools are focusing on English and Maths and forgetting about other subjects so as other posters have said choose the school with the best pastoral care.

I’d go with the one attached to the pre-school.

That seems to be what you’re leaning towards any way. While some schools are cutting out everything except English and maths, I don’t think it’s that common. And it’s something Ofsted are looking to crack down on.

You can focus on academics and have a broad and balanced curriculum the two things are not mutually exclusive.

@glumglowworm Thank you, I feel I may have made the wrong choice but the other factor is the School attached to the preschool is out of catchment (though it’s a low birth year this year so they’re fairly sure we would get in).

@believeitornot I do a fair bit of art with them but technical skills I feel benefit from being taught by someone with that skill set. Music lessons are expensive and not within my reach just now but my DS did save for a year () for a drum kit and now has one. I sing around the house a lot and I play instruments though not easy ones for a small child to pick up on yet.

@HonestTeacher Very helpful insight thank you. It’s such a shame so many schools see subjects outside of maths and English as being inferior in some way. Bit of a longwinded story but I met a guy who is a teacher and he had been on an exchange to China with yr 11 or 12 students and their experience of the Chinese education was they were streets ahead in pure academia but they lack innovators to lead the way in the work place because of the lack of creative opportunities throughout their school years.

@Rafalsthekingofclay That is where I’m leaning but I guess my concern is moving my little chap when he’s relatively settled. I couldn’t manage two different schools time wise. It’s a tricky one! Thanks.

As others say, I'd look at the pastoral care contempt.

When it comes to music and art in Primary, I personally find that important. I am saying that as a person married to a highly academic person but with no skills in music or art. Whilst DC is doing greatly academically, the interest in art and music from school definitely enhances the academic side too. As a matter of fact, DC has said that for secondary school, DC would like a school strong in science, English and art. I will always encourage art and music alongside academic subjects as I think a creative mind will enable you to stand out later in life, which after all is what we are preparing our children for - life.

Art of D&T should be taught every week for about 1 hour. Sometimes the whole afternoon is devoted to it and then the following week another subject is taught. This is because time is needed to explain/ demonstrate then enough time is needed for children to complete. Some schools do have a whole day but there is a recommended amount of hours given.Music should be an hour a week but the lesson can be split into chunks. So 15 minutes of singing, 10 minutes on music appreciation( might be last thing of one day), 35mins of instrumental work which could include learning to read music, composing a piece and playing as a group. This would vary week to week. Some schools follow a music programme.
It is really hard to fit all the subjects in and my daughter wrote a dissertation on " losing creativity in the classroom" she compared different types of primary education.
In KS2 children should be offered the opportunity to learn an instrument. Could you ask the school if there is an opportunity for an art club. Does the school have a choir. These things usually depend on whether staff have an interest in those subjects. If they do then you usually find someone running a lunchtime or after school session.
It is a difficult choice when you DS is already happy and settled there. I would go and find out what provision is available in KS2. Personally I like the sound of the other school. Has your son looked at it?

I think art and music are very important in primary school (secondary school too but especially primary school) so I would go for the attached school (the forest school bit is another good selling point). I'm in Finland and the new curriculum recently increased hours of music, art and handicrafts in schools because the educational experts recognise the importance of them.

Ah - the thread I was thinking of was in Chat (probably why you couldn't see it!)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3132893-My-kids-haven-t-done-art-in-school-in-years

I prefer a more balanced approach for my children! My son, Yr R experiences lots of art as a natural part of the school day and the same with music. There are also more formal opportunities for music lessons (paid for). My daughter is at the junior school and they have art at least once a week as a formal lesson and music once a week as a formal lesson and all children learn instruments e.g recorder, Yr 3, melodeon, Yr 4 and euklele, yr 5. They also have formal music lessons (paid for), an excelllent 90 piece orchestra, band, junior and senior choir. My daughter plays several instruments and it has enriched her school experience no end. It has helped her confidence and enables her academically too imo! I would go for this option every time.

One of the things I really value about our local primary is that the kids all get a weekly art lesson and a weekly music lesson, both taught by specialists. Along with PE, this makes up the PPA time for the normal teachers, and is referred to as ‘the fun morning’ in our house.

Many schools under pressure to demonstrate progress in ‘core’ subjects seem to feel that the answer is so drop things like art and music and do more literacy and maths. To me this sometimes feels a bit like “the teaching isn’t working so let’s do more of it. Schools bucking this trend, like this one in Bradford are successfully proving there are other approaches.

I don’t envy your decision, OP - good luck.

My ds's school has specialist music and art teachers. He also does music privately and do quite a lot of art at home, but still enjoys whole class singing/playing and learning/doing art at school.
Our school's sats results aren't great, but ds definitely seems to love school.

Well, I'm not 100% happy with my dds school, she's on reception, but art and music they have covered extensively but not in specific lessons. Painting and drawing seems to happen every day as part of discovery and explore tasks, the teacher sings with them every day, they sing all the little phonics songs and there is all the singing they did for the nativity. I think it's a well integrated part of most curriculums rather than a stand alone subject

We went for the school with the specialist music teacher, recorder lessons in Y2 and violin lessons in Y3.

Unfortunately by the end of YR the (excellent) music teacher quit (some say, due to the newish headteacher's lack of support for music, always putting music last). There appeared to have been no more music instruction beyond singing phonics songs (and occasional pointless tick-boxing exercises) for two whole years. None of the instrument lessons materialised either. (Luckily, a new music teacher has now started. Still no instruments though.)

Just saying, I agree with PP that current provision for music/art can change quickly. If you can, talk to the head to see their stance towards music and art. If they are enthusiastic, then great. If they say the right words but are only lukewarm about it, I'd be wary that the current provision may not continue for much longer.

IMO good music instruction for young children will support literacy and numeracy more than extra booster maths and English sessions. There is quite some evidence to support this opinion too.