How do state primaries deal with bright children?

[bearsmom]

DS is 4 and due to start school in either September or January. I'm tending towards January because emotionally I don't think he'll be ready in Sept. However, I know I'm biased, but he seems much brighter than the average. Since the age of 3 he's been able to tell the time, he counts to in excess of 1,000 and is starting to get to grips with higher numbers than this. He can do simple addition and subtraction with numbers up to twenty and also knows simple multiplication. His dad plays chess with him and DS already understands the strategy and can visualise moves in his head. His language is also very advanced. I'm not bragging and wouldn't say he's gifted/talented (and we haven't hot-housed or overtly taught him any of this, we just answer the questions he asks us, which are numerous!), but he does seem very bright and I'm worried that the state sector may not be flexible enough to give him work at the right level. The nursery staff have already commented on how bright and articulate he is and people are regularly shocked at the complex sentences and advanced vocabulary he uses (to the extent that everyone at nursery drop-off this morning laughed in astonishment at an especially complex sentence he came out with and I'm starting to worry he's going to feel like an oddity).
Does anyone else have a child who seemed much more advanced than his/her peers when starting school, and how did the school cope with this? Or are there any primary teachers out there who can advise me? DS would be going into a mixed reception/yr 1 class, so I guess there's a possibility he could do yr 1 work. I have mentioned my concerns to the school in my letter accepting DS's place but haven't heard back (understandably as they have plenty of more immediate concerns).
We could afford to privately educate one child but I am pg with no 2 and we'd seriously struggle to educate two privately. Also, as someone who was privately educated for my entire school career, I have a lot of reservations about private education and would prefer to stick with the state system. I've also considered home ed, but as we live in a fairly rural area where I know the home educators sometimes struggle to find enough playmates for their kids, this doesn't strike me as ideal either. Help! Has anyone been in a similar situation?

bearsmom I have a very bright 7 year old whom I feel is being failed by his school. It's a brilliant school in all other ways, but I don't feel that state school can really give pupils with special educational needs, and extra bright pupils do have these needs, a fair education.

Also it's hard to talk about. Like anyone you just want to give your child the best possible education for him, but others will think you smug and feel you don't have this right as your son is already very bright.

It's infuriating. I have four kids so private ed' is not an option but in your case I might be tempeted to try to make it work.

We have a v bright ds1 in a mainstream state school and it's great. He is taught at his level for core subjects and has sometimes has sessions with the SN teacher (SN because he is at the top end to make sure that he continues to progress) but thrives in things like project work where they all bring different skills to the group - his brightness just being one of those skills. His teacher has been very good with him.

My dd1 (10)is very bright and feeling underchallenged. However, since a new head came to the school he has been finding her new challenges including out of school courses for able children. I think it depends very much on the school, the teachers and how much pressure they are under anyway.

it is better than it used to be ten years ago, each school has a gifted and talented coordinator to make sure teacher is giving differentiated work,

also can do supplementary stuff at home (a bright child will have spare mental energy even after a day at school)and once his reading is above a certain level just provide the books (fact and fiction) and he will mop them up.

DS1 was in this position but being youngest in year group he didn't have too much problem, DS2 is oldest in class so it is a bit of a battle with teacher to give him work that will stretch him fortunately able to use DS1's books at home for him

My DD1 was bright and I kept her back until january because she was only just 4 and for us that was a big mistake. She loved school so much but as a new girl had to go out with the other to do "catch up" work which she hated. She was desperate to stay in with the main class. After a month they allowed her to stay in the class as she was able to cope with the work. In hindsight I should have sent her in september as she would have loved to have been part of the xmas plays etc, (just a little thing I know but missing out that first one proved costly to her confidence and she was very reluctant to join in any assembly for 2 year)

The school itself were excellent with bright pupils having experienced it with my DS too. We have an infants school until year 2 then we move on to a primary and they, unfotunately arent to good with bright ones.

Talk to the head and the teacher if possible.its important to do what you feel comfortable with.

It is really annoying that they insist on keeping a child in a class according to the age on the birth certificate (which often is not the emotional, physical, academic age) unless it suits the school to have a composite class (see other thread). So with the national curriculum as it is a year 1 child is not "allowed to say 2 times 6" but they can do doubling and halving.

sod it DS2 is interesting in multiplication so I will do it with him

most english state schools don't pre-screen as a rule they just do the early learning goals at end of foundation (reception year) and report scores but don't explain them and may give reading age

Thank you all for your replies. I'm starting to feel a little better informed and it's useful to know that some schools do accommodate very bright children. I'm hoping that, as a small school, ds's will quickly become aware of his abilities and I just have to hope they'll be flexible enough to respond to them. I think the school meets with all the children who are starting in the next academic year and their parents some time this term, so we can talk to them in detail then.

Spidermama - I know just what you mean about not being able to talk about this because others end up thinking you're being smug. I make a point of not getting involved in the "my dc did this brilliant thing" conversations - we attract enough attention with ds's complex sentences, spot-on time-telling and the like as it is.

Sixthformmum - am that children aren't allowed to say "two times six" in year 1. This is just the sort of inflexible attitude I was worried about, and my response, if I encounter this, will be the same as yours!

Also G&T programmes are now being set in place across all schools (there is a section on MN for G&T children).

I'd suggest talking to the school and mentioning your concerns. The school should be able to reassure you about this easily. Every state primary needs to have a g and T programme up and running now as far as I know.
If you're not sure school will be enough, contact Kumon, maybe they could supplement - maybe not if you're really remote.
But a good primary should be able to cater for your ds with your help and involvement too. There is setting pretty early on so that he will be given appropriate work.

As a teacher I think it is worth pointing out that social skills at this age are really important, more important that the academic side imho. Don't get too anxious about him being 'stretched' in his first few weeks or months at school. He needs to make friends and settle into school routines, which however gifted he is, can be quite a difficult time. Often exceptionally bright children find it harder to mix with other children because they aren't 'on the same level'.

There's a good chance that there will be some other children in the class who are articulate and more able (although your lo does sound particularly advanced for his age). Maybe once he is settled in school and the teacher has recognised his obvious talents (is he reading yet?) they will do something to stretch him and ensure he's not getting bored. It's a good sign that it's a mixed class as there are bound to be opportunites for him to work at a higher level than what would be normally expected for his age group.

Could you send him part time in september and see how that goes, may be build up to full time over the term?

I think kumon for a 4 yo is a bit crazy though.

Thanks ipanemagirl, lionheart and tinpot. It's good to know about the G&T programmes, I'll be asking the school about what their provision is when I go in this summer.

I hadn't really thought about Kumon, and definitely feel that he's far too young at 4, but maybe some time in the future if we feel he would benefit from it and would enjoy it. I definitely don't want to push him too hard. I agree Tinpot, social skills are more important at this age, and plenty of play. I just want to stay aware of the fact that at some point he might get bored and I want to avoid that. I hope we'll be able to strike the right balance between giving him enough challenges without making him feel like he's under excessive pressure.

He isn't reading yet (though come to think of it he does spell out f-o-c-u-s when we drive past Focus, and then says focus, so maybe he can read more than I think). He recognises all the letter names and sounds, but I've deliberately avoided sitting down with him and trying to teach him to read because he has plenty to do (nursery three mornings a week, music class, swimming session) and I want him to do as much playing/being out and about in the world as possible. Also I have felt until recently that he wasn't ready or interested in learning to read. This is changing now so I may get some advice from nursery about what, if anything, to start teaching him. Anyway, thank you for all your advice. Mumsnet is great!

Personally I would wait and see what happens when he starts school. If you let the teachers work out how bright ds is for themselves, and then tell you, then you are more likely to proceed positively.

It's always worked very well for us anyway. Dss are now in yrs 3 and 5 and we've never raised the subject of G&T at a parent's evening, but it's always been raised by the teacher.

Unfortunately if you go into a school and tell them how bright your child is, you will just get yourself labelled as a pushy parent.