How do you decode "ball"

[lolalotta]

So we came across "ball" in a Songbirds book tonight, I wasn't sure how to explain we go about decoding that to my DD? Then it got me thinking about tall, call, hall, wall etc! Can anyone help? I had a look in the Oxford phonics spelling dictionary but I still couldn't work it out! Thank you!

Yawn and born do not sound the same in my Scottish accent. They're pronounced as they're written, an /aw/ and an /or/ sound respectively.

How do you pronounce /aw/ ? 🤔

sounds.bl.uk/Accents-and-dialects/Evolving-English-WordBank/021M-C1442X01984X-0201V0 I can't think of how to describe it, but if you listen to this, the last sound of "awa" is how I would say /aw/ in yawn, lawn, and it would sound sort of like "gone" I suppose.

These always go this way with rhotic speakers scratching their head at random 'r' s in words (for non-rhotic speakers try rolling the r to get an idea of what it sounds like for us)

Given the large variation in the pronunciation of r across the country I don't think 'or' is particularly helpful phonic for al.

Gone I’d pronounce /g/ /o/ /n/

You don’t actually pronounce the r in or

In some areas you really do pronounce the r in or.

The o in gone would be the best approximation for how /aw/ would be pronounced up here.

So would you say /saw and sore/ /porn and pawn/ /pot and pour and paw / etc differently

Not who you asked but yes, they are very different in my accent. Ditto for yawn and born, I can hear a very clear difference.

This is the rhotic vs non rhotic issue cropping up again I think, is it? /or/ when used for /aw/ isn't correct in my accent.

It is the rhotic vs non rhotic issue I think raven. One set or the other won't be helping the OP much

So would you say /saw and sore/ /porn and pawn/ /pot and pour and paw / etc differently
Each pair sounds the same to me.
It's all the /aw/ sound.

Not who you asked but yes, they are very different in my accent. Ditto for yawn and born, I can hear a very clear difference.
See I say them both the samr as well.

North East here.

You don’t actually pronounce the r in or

We do down here

My accent has the rhombic r but I pronounce pore and paw saw and sore the same

I feel like a crow after reading this thread. I'm sitting here going
"Aw, aw, or, aw, or, aw, or, aw, aw"

Poor OPs thread is wandering off topic a bit

I'm Dublin based. My kids would make a face if I tried teaching them that yawn and born etc sound the same. They just...don't, for us.

Porn, born, sore are making an "oar" sound to me, it's more of an elongated sound. Saw, pawn, paw - it's an aw as in...auger maybe? Someone will probably tell me these sound the same to them now!

Saw, pawn, paw - it's an aw as in...auger maybe? Someone will probably tell me these sound the same to them now
Yup.
Saw and sore are the same to me.
Same for pore, paw and pour.

^This
or as in oar
aw as in August

It would be good if there we could make a list of "words that are up for argument" and a way to post audio clips of us saying these words from different areas to demonstrate this

Yeah I thought that might happen. Can't help you then, Maisy

Sound clips are probably the only way to get it properly explained!

Yep, Raven , all the same for me. I can sort of see how they might be different, but the au in August and oar sound exactly the same for me.

Where do people stand on au in general, then, like sauce and haunt and launch?

Aw and au make the same sound to me.
Ore/or is a different sound.

Aw is kind of like a kid complaining. "Awh, Miss!" Short and sharp sounding. Whereas ore is more like a very indecisive kid making up their mind and dragging the word out while they're thinking about it "orrrrrr....".

Unbelievable to me in Canada....so if ball (pronounced b-aw-ll) is pronounced b-or-ll, how would you pronounce bowl?

/b/ /oe/ /l/ ow is an alternative spelling for the sound /oe/

And yes for phonics purposes au is an alternative spelling for /or/ as is oar.
(au, or, aw, ore, a, al, augh, oar, ough, oor, awe, ar, aur, ar are all common spellings for the sound /or/ and the teacher would teach to the children’s accent so there will be variations in pronunciation)

Remember phonics isn’t elocution and isn’t about a single pronunciation.

“It would be good if there we could make a list of "words that are up for argument" “ think the OED has produced a list ...we all pronounce words differently depending on accent but that’s not the purpose of phonics.

Regional accents are quite funny.

For the Canadian, the British /or/ sounds most similar to the US/Canada pronunciation of /aw/. Not the exact same but closer to /aw/ than how a person from the US/Canada would pronounce /or/.

There's an interesting article on this very sound. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot%E2%80%93caught_merger

or as in oar
aw as in August
These are the same to me too... 😕😂

This is why sometimes i think kids with regoinal accents have a rough deal with phonics. 😀