Ability Groups

[curiousmum32]

My daughter who is 4 an in reception told me today that the class has been divided into a few groups- Moon, Stars, Earth, Sun. And that she is in the star group.
Cant figure out if she's in the top group or in the middle or below. Havent had a chance to ask the teacher and I am not sure if they would tell.
Please advise.
Thank you

So if you’re sitting with a group and your TA is sitting with a group when exactly do you notice one child has taken the easy option that lesson? When you mark?

"At our school, children are free to choose their assignment from different levels.(maths)
So bottom table child can choose to do hardest if they want/can."

That is seriously worrying to hear. Children should not be making decisions like this.

The fact that the gaps between children appear to get wider not narrower as the years go on in most schools suggests that most children do not catch up.

Academic performance is higher in countries which do not put children into "ability groups." Whole-class teaching does have its downside, but I am appalled at the way UK schools pigeonhole kids at such an early age.

mrz you do a walk round about five minutes in, then another quick once or twice, to check what everyone is up to.

I would never work with a group to the point where I hadn't seen what the rest of the class was up to

mrz, at least it doesn't work like that at ds's school.
Once children have finished the task, if they have finished hardest, they can do whatever they like rest of the time. But if they completed easier option, they have to do higher level ones.
So, unless the child fancies spending whole lesson working from easier to harder questions, they simply start from appropriate levels.

Biggest problem is that hardest question is still too easy for some children. My ds spend most of the maths reading books.

As is obvious here schools use different strategies. I know mixed ability group work has benefits but there must be some ability setting though, can't quite believe a teacher would have a child who was already reading chapter books when they started school (to use a MN classic trope) and a child who still had to learn all their letters tackling the same reading book. And depending on the school there will be some setting early in reception, there certainly is at the DC's school (very middle class with very good SATs results, lots of kids with parents who can support their education), they would have failed my DC who was very ready for formal teaching if they hadn't pushed her in reception just as they would have failed my summer born if they hadn't given her a gentler start into school. Some learning at school is whole class, some is in mixed ability groups and some is in sets. A good set can be really positive, the teachers tell us that DD1's set has a healthy competition that really drives them all on.

OP the groups might not even be sets, I'd assume they were teams or houses. Which is better, Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw?

My teacher friend has a lovely method, she uses countries that she's been to on holiday. She knows which is top and which isn't but I would put money on the parents struggling to work it out.

flying the parents won't directly but as others have already said children will at some point become aware (maybe not in reception) and work it out.

DS's school uses colours for groups with different meanings for each year/subject (green may be top for one, but bottom for another), DS though knows all the meanings.

Can I just ask mrz what he/she actually does do then? As you seem to be opposed to both ability groups and the choose your own challenge idea?

FWIW, I think the chilli challenge is one of the stupidest fads to have hit recently.

who yes, absolutely. In my own DCs school they have the same system throughout the school so (group names changed) anteaters are the bottom group in R through to year 6 and termites are the top group.

“So, unless the child fancies spending whole lesson working from easier to harder questions” or they simply make the easy task last for the whole lesson. Children aren’t fools and not every child cares about being in the top group

“mrz you do a walk round about five minutes in, then another quick once or twice, to check what everyone is up to.” So what do you do if you think a child has chosen an easy option?

“Can I just ask mrz what he/she actually does do then? “ There are many different ways to differentiate (NASEN provide a handy list) by task is one but is recognised as extending or maintaining achievement gap and often results in lower teacher expectations

My son has different groups for different types of lesson. Maths and reading /english are by ability group (based on what he has told me). The rest are mixed ability.

The groups are named after a theme like story characters/fruit etc. But children aren’t daft, my son is well aware he is on the table for maths where they storm through the basic work and get extra challenges, for instance.

He deserves to be stretched just as much as another child deserves
To get extra support. There’s no point pretending all children have the same needs at the same time.

I am not saying ability group is great. That's how our school does things. And sadly, no matter how much info I get about better ways, there's no way I can change the way my ds's school operates.
Sad, but that's just a reality for most of us parents.

https://www.thirdspacelearning.com/blog/every-school-leader-know-mastery-mixed-ability-maths-class/s/^
^
“Research has shown that mixed ability teaching has always been more effective than setting when it comes to Maths. A study called ‘Effective classroom organisation in primary schools’ found that there was no evidence that children learn more effectively in sets for Mathematics at any level. “*^

What does it matter if a child picks the "easy option" if they could do the "hard option", the actual concept being taught and practiced is the same surely?

To me it would suggest a lack of engagement with the subject matter (which is fine unless it always happens, no-one is going to fully engage with everything) but what does it matter if a kid just decides to take it easy that day, and uses their mental resources for something else.

If they're not getting it at all, that wouldn't be so great, but if they get it, what does it matter?

I think both mixed ability/whole class teaching and ability grouping have faults in normal school setting, especially for maths.
If the teacher knows what they are doing, both setting should work fine.
I truly believe mrz's pupils have best teaching they can ever get. But not all the teachers are the same.
With ability grouping, at least it makes it easier for some teachers to differentiate.
My native country does whole class teaching. But the level is set at lower/middle level, so most able kids get outside school tuition of some sort. It's the norm. My parents weren't pushy at all, but they sent me to the after school study center because that's what they do for (even slightly)able child.

But as for parents getting worried about reception/ks1 children's place in ability tables, I think the child would normally falls into the average category.
If the child has specific problem, or the child is unusually bright, parents would normally know/guess where they are.

“What does it matter if a child picks the "easy option” it doesn’t matter at all if you don’t mind that they just tread water.

mrz if a child who can manage the hard option is doing the easy option, then you encourage them to do the hard option.

It's not rocket science

Plus it's all very well knowing that setting is bollocks:

Most schools set, so you just have to get on with it

I can’t believe people are actually questioning why OP would be curious as to her child’s position within the class and whether she was in the top group, if there is one. A parent who doesn’t want to know that would be lying very unusual indeed.

No, I think it's understandable that parents wants to know the position of their child. But they would normally be able to guess/know if they are in top set or bottom set. Otherwise I would assume most are in the middle/average. Unless of course if the parents have no idea what your child is capable of.

No it’s not rocket science but my question is when do you realise they are taking the easy option if you’re focused on the group you’re working with? I’ve seen it happen teacher sits with a group, ta sits with another group and the rest are on hold unnoticed until work is marked.

But also parents should really know the ability grouping depend on the cohort. Top group in one school/class can be second set in another school/class. It's way better to know how the child is actually doing against NC or whatever, than knowing the position of your child in class of 30.