Parents

[hazel10]

My child started a couple of weeks at a school nursery. Me and my spouse are unemployed due to recession and trying to get back to work so we were very happy when we got a nursery place in the state school. I run a startup but do not earn enough so I have been contemplating of getting back to work somehow although I am passionate about my startup. We were high earners in financial sector but lost job for last 1 year. We do not like to discuss our financial state publicly. I have been doing cooking, cleaning, school run ins and tutoring because we save in these trying times and cannot afford any more of these costs.

As the school is facing funding cuts, a council officer working for school phoned me regarding the funding crisis. As I was getting ready to collect my child from nursery, giving a brief overview, she asked me to meet her at the school reception.

However, instead of reception, she found me at the nursery and she started to talk publicly about the recent 30 hours. As I was emotionally charged, I was upset thinking they were going to end full-day to 15 hours/day especially because I let go of a seat at another school. I gruntled how their fund issue now will throw our already treacherous life in disarray.

Teachers soon started to give me advice and basically ridiculed for high pay sit-at-home parents and belittled my concerns comparing their situation to mine.They did not understand what startup means. I am much more informed and therefore felt uncomfortable talking publicly and taking their advice and I counter-argued as their arguments obviously did not apply to my situation. Soon silently they called headteacher and deputy head teacher and I felt so ganged up. I shed a few tears. I do not ever do but I did.

That incident played on my mind maybe because they saw me weak. I felt school interferes too much into personal matters. I've another child in another school and I've faced no issues.

The next day I spoke to headteacher but he refused to acknowledge his staff's fault at all and dismissed my concerns. I'm angry if there's a policy at all for right to information protection and should I notify council about the school's careless attitudes. I asked the headteacher if there is a policy to talk of confidential issues at all? Parents may have disability, suffering abuse, financial concerns and may not want to discuss with all like this. Can I refuse to provide personal financial status to council through school forms? Please suggest.

"As the school is facing funding cuts, a council officer working for school phoned me regarding the funding crisis."

Can you explain why this person phoned you, and what they wanted to talk to you about? This seems quite unusual, I've never heard of anyone like this phoning parents.

I'm confused about what they actually said to you. Are they cutting down your DC's hours?

Sorry, but can you summarise in significantly less flowery language what actually happened? Is English not your first language - it is hard to understand what the discussion was actually about. Were they asking you to pay more? to not claim the funded hours?

I am not entirely sure what they wanted to talk to OP about either. However it is clear that it was something that OP felt uncomfortable discussing in public.
And that people who weren't actually involved (nursery teachers) piled in with advice and judgement, making OP feel patronised and defensive.

No OP you should not have been 'ganged up' on no matter what the topic. And if the topic is at all personal or delicate, it should not have been discussed 'in public'. The 'council officer working for the school' - whoever that was, exactly - should have met you where they had agreed to meet you, or offered to go somewhere more private to talk once you had met. Probably they weren't being malicious, just careless and unawares - although perhaps if they thought you had something to hide, they WERE trying to put you on the spot. Impossible to tell.

For the future, can you practise saying 'Can we take this conversation somewhere more private please?' which usually works.

However I do not think there is much you can do in hindsight, and I don't think notifying the council at this stage would have much effect.

I do think however that you should put your concern into writing to the head, along the lines of 'I was made to feel uncomfortable by a number of people being present and making comments during a conversation that was personal and private and did not concern them. This went so far as that I was in tears, and yet your employee (?) didn't stop, ask the non-involved people to leave, or offer to go somewhere more private to talk. Please can you reassure me that you will take steps to assure that private conversations can be held in private in the future, and that your staff do not resort to emotional bullying.'

If you are lucky you might even get an apology - after all you put in writing that they made you feel uncomfortable. But don't count on it, and don't make your happiness dependent on it!

It's not 100% clear from your OP. Is it that you thought you were entitled to 30 hours free childcare but you're not? You have to be working over a number of hours to get the full 30 don't you? They shouldn't discuss it in public though.

You have to be working over a number of hours to get the full 30 don't you?
I believe you are also entitled (under certain conditions) if you are starting up your own business.

If you worked in the financial sector in a highly paid role, then presumably you will know that - according to official data - the UK has not been in recession since 2009.

sorry, I'd been away for a while. I was really emotional while typing message after such an experience so I even forgot to update title.

I want to know do we need to fill some pupil premium funding form when confirming nursery seat to a school? what if I had refused?

On that form, I mentioned that we are not claiming benefits but have no income. basically living off savings until we find work. So the council officer asked my situation. I explained but now I understand schools are using new techniques to claim funds from parents. they have a selected list of parents and they fleece more information from our situation and want to apply for 30 hours funding. On one hand they claimed that they have funds for nursery this year but using same funds for school

Because my startup is not giving me revenues, I do not think HMRC ill believe I'm working. As it is I do not qualify for that funding because both parents must be earning more than £16,000 and less than £42,000.

I'm really sorry but I still don't understand what the issue is. You've asked for the 30 hours funding, but the school/council are querying if you qualify, is that right? You think they're using nursery money to fund the main infants/junior school?

It sounds like the school are asking for your financial status in order to claim extra funding, perhaps the early years pupil premium? This is a sum of money paid to early years settings by councils on behalf of children who are considered to be deprived in some way - children whose parents are claiming certain means tested benefits, for example, or whose parents have a very low income.

To claim the pupil premium, they need you to complete a simple form with your financial information which they submit to the council. In return they get a sum of money which has to be spent, to some degree, on your child and meeting their particular needs, and they have to be able to show when audited that they have done so. So this money would benefit your child during their time at nursery in some way. Lots of nurseries are really pushing hard to ensure they claim every penny of the eyp because of the pressure being put on ey settings due to the recent 30hours changes and the subsequent underfunding of that.

I can understand why you wouldn’t want to have discussed anything so personal in public - they should have invited you to discuss in private at least, and explained fully. They should also not have expressed any opinion Re your circumstances. However it might be worth meeting with the staff privately again to clarify what they were trying to get you to do, and if it’s to claim the funding it’s worth considering for your child’s sake.

@AssassinatedBeauty - I got a nursery seat and my child started but from some pupil premium form they gathered financial health of parents and selectively want to use such parents to their advantage to get more funding for the school. They're asking parents to provide details to claim funds. I donot want to divulge anything as I feel stressed and angry with the current situation.
I want to know if all parents are filling up such forms for nursery places divulging family incomes if they are earning> £16,000 but

I think 60percentbanana's post might have answered your question?

You said: "selectively want to use such parents to their advantage to get more funding for the school." It sounds like you are very angry at the school, and that you don't want the school that your children go to, to get any more government funding? I don't understand why you don't want the school to get the appropriate extra funding?

You can't be forced to fill out the Pupil Premium information, and the school absolutely can't/won't withdraw your younger child's nursery place if you don't.

You sound very hostile to the school, which I don't really understand.

I think the pupil premium forms are pretty standard tbh. My son is in school and filled them out in school nursery, reception and yr1 to qualify for meals or to see if school gets extra funding.

Pupil premium is there to help your child. In my opinion it would be stupid not to apply because you're stressed. More funding means more resources to support your child. Why wouldn't you?

Do you not need to prove that you are eligible for the extra 15 hours of the thirty as not everyone is eligible for thirty?

Hazel you have every right to refuse to provide financial information.They just won’t be able to claim as a result.

However bear in mind the extra funding paid can be significant - some local authorities top up the government minimum pupil premium with extra funding. A couple of years ago the total funding was worth about £600 a year per pupil, which in a small nursery in a deprived area meant a net gain of about £16k a year to the budget - that’s a lot of resources or potentially even an extra member of staff. It makes a big difference.

You can read more here m.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/content/early-years-pupil-premium

That funding can also be claimed in a slightly different form in reception and beyond. It doesn’t just apply to children in low income households either, but children who are adopted for example.

I can’t believe you would actively deny the school additional funding in a time when school budgets are being cut left right and centre. The top-up funding is means tested, they need the information to claim it. You are paranoid and think they care how little you earn to judge you. Teaching Assistants take home around £10k, teachers take home around £20k (I am talking about new primary teachers not highly specialists or head of department etc before people jump on me and I am basing it on the fact that everyone seems to be an Academy now and employing straight to teach who train on the job as many schools use them now too)

Are you worried that your claim for the extra 15h/ 30h funding contradicts the nursery school's claim on your child's behalf for Early Years Pupil Premium?

So, either you are running a start-up and working so-and-so many hours (and your spouse is working/a jobseeker too) and therefore qualify for the extra 15h, OR you are Not Working (a stay-at-home mother) and have no income and your spouse has no/low income too, and therefore qualify for Early Years Pupil Premium.
This contradiction is not necessarily true. You can qualify for both.

Is it that they are asking you to put down financial info in a certain way (that would make you qualify for Early Years Pupil Premium). Perhaps under the guise of helping you fill the form. They don't really understand your financial situation but they want/need you to put certain things on the form in order to be able to claim.
But you think that if you do put down that info/put it down in the way they want you to, you would be losing your entitlement for the 30h?

So essentially are they asking you to put down that you are e.g. not working, and have no income. When your claim for the 30h rests on your status of running a start-up with projected future income even if currently you do not make any money.

Ok well if I remember that form (for Early Years Pupil Premium) correctly, it says on it that this claim will not affect any other benefits you receive.

Also, it is a voluntary self-declaration. If you want the nursery school to have that extra money to benefit your child (and others), you need to do the form; but nobody can force you to. If the staff try to get more Pupil Premium funding by cornering people in uncomfortable situations, they shouldn't be surprised when it backfires.

All that said, it does feel a bit spiteful to not fill the form - would you rather have the nursery school have fewer funds? Just give the same info you gave on the application for the 30h (i.e. be truthful... assuming you were truthful on that application too). If that info then means that they can't claim Early Years Pupil Premium, then so be it. By no means give untruthful information just in order to allow them to claim!

OP the school aren't singling you out because of your circumstances. Schools can only access certain types of funding if they can prove they are teaching children for whom the funding had been set aside for.

You aren't obliged to fill in the forms so that the school can access these funds but your child will not benefit from that extra funding of you don't. Considering how tight budgets are in not suprised they are following up children that might qualify.

If you feel how they approached you initially was incorrect you should discuss it with the head teacher.

@AssassinatedBeauty yes, I've turned hostile especially when the nursery staff ganged up to punish me for being ex-high earner, a banker which by their standards is a high earner by HMRC definition(>£42K) while we just scrape through London living with that amount.

I'm also hostile because the school officer poses as council representative and I reveal my financial status. Whatever you are, be upfront else you lose trust.

Thirdly, I'm hostile because I seem to feel a scam...The school wants us to claim one of the funding 30 hours or pupil premium while we have agreed to pay for school meals. So technically school pockets our meals payments quietly. I spoke to the council and they said for 30 hours they cannot claim from one child to benefit another.

Fourthly, a person consciously does not want to be on benefits as this phase of my family will pass but the credit hit we receive by helping school claim some £1300 by approving to be 'disadvantaged' stays on for long when you need loans to buy assets in the UK. This way schools are forcing parents to be on benefits so that they claim their funds. what levels schools have stooped to. Pure bullying.

My older child goes to another school for last 3 years and they haven't asked anything except for voluntary £2-3 so why this sort of bullying. To be honest, a number of parents are unemployed and how can we cash strapped people save schools?

I was ready to help the school but after the rude headteacher did not even listen to my concerns when I went to speak the next day about feeling stressed talking of my finances, I felt if you don't care a new parent in your school, parents don't.

When a child is offered a nursery seat, no information is asked from parents about their working status then why now after getting a seat they want to know financial status. This is intrusive and must be voluntarily given. I feel compelled now to help just because I have entrusted my little child to their care.

I'm still confused. They're just trying to access as much funding as they can to provide the children's education. To pay for teachers and teaching assistants, classroom equipment, books etc. It's not a scam. Don't you want them to try and access funds that will be used to educate your child? To access the funds, yes, they do need information.

"You will be eligible for the 30-hour offer if:
• You earn more than the equivalent of 16 hours at the national living wage or minimum wage per week: for example, £120 per week if you are 25 or older. There is no requirement to work a certain amount of hours per week – it is all about how much you earn.
AND
• You earn less than £100,000 per year.
If you are self-employed or on a zero-hours contract: You are still eligible as long as you expect to meet the earning criteria on average over the three months after you have applied for the 30-hours.
f you are starting up your own business, you will not be expected to meet the minimum earning criteria in your first year of trading. You will need to provide a Unique Tax Reference (UTR) number to HMRC so that they can check your income at the end of the tax year

@brilliotic in case of pupil premium, you prove that your child is from a 'disadvantaged' background so claims free meals and once you claim that information stays on for 6 years I read somewhere. I'm running a startup without revenues and my husband a jobseeker so for credit rating problems do not want to become 'disadvantaged' even if that helps school today but hits us big way tomorrow.

@dragonwarrior I understand how teachers survive on low income but so are we unemployed for last 1 year. Except the rich who get away through tax havens, who else is benefitting. Ppl blame bankers but no one asks how we cope up because we employees were oblivious while the greedy bankers at the top played with cash to spell doom and yet got away with deep pockets and severance pays.

Qualifying for pupil premium/free school meals absolutely does not go on your credit rating history! It's got nothing to do with your personal finance, it is record keeping for the school only.