The Lyceum School, London - updates?

[NotTheMomma1]

Hi all, our little daughter might start at the Lyceum School in 2018. I understand some changes have taken place in the last couple of years, with Minerva taking over and key people leaving. Somebody also told me that the big renovation they were planning initially is now off. What is the situation like at the Lyceum School right now? Are parents with kids going here generally happy with the school? Any advice is much appreciated. :) Thank you

The thing to start with is that they are doing full time, live lessons during the lockdown. It took a bit longer to get there than some other schools, but it's also important to recognise that some other local independent schools aren't doing anything close. Some of it feels rather like busy work - but I am disinclined to complain about any of it given what other comparable schools are doing.

However, my other issues with the school are ongoing. I think there is a real lack of understanding on how to teach girls (how is it that every girl in a year group is in the lowest set in maths? That's a teaching issue, fundamentally). There are also issue issues both on their ability to teach/support the gifted, as well as those with learning difficulties. But if your kid is pretty straightforward/mainstream (and male), I'd completely recommend it. For girls, frankly, I'd have some hesitation.

My daughter’s been there nearly 2 years, having started in nursery. I’m lucky in that we haven’t experienced anything near what ExpatMomOf1 has. There’s no difference in teaching standards, levels etc between the girls and boys in nursery or reception and their transition to online learning was immediate for reception and continues to a high standard. The head of Early Learning is excellent though, as is the headmistress.

It’s a school very focussed on music, drama and the art related subjects but with some soft intervention from parents, those capable are being pushed in other areas at reception level. It is not however currently, one of the more academic prep schools.

Class sizes are small, there’s a strong sense of pastoral care throughout, the children are very happy and the b/fast/after school clubs etc are very good. The school has undergone a very positive transformation in the past 18mths (and it absolutely needed to). There also seems to be a growing rapport with good senior schools.

@AWEB
@ExpatMomOf1

Thank you so much for responding - I really appreciate hearing your views! It's difficult to figure out what's best for your child at such a young age, isn't it?! It would be a bit of a commute for us, so trying to weigh up the benefits of Lyceum versus the very good state primary nearby. A very fortunate position to be in, but still tricky to figure out! Do you both feel that Lyceum is a significant step up from an outstanding state primary?

There's a family in my daughter's class that has specifically complained that it is not at all a step up academically from the outstanding state primary they were in before, and is at best on par. The school website/curriculum talks about kids operating at a year ahead the national curriculum, and that is not the case with my daughter's class. However, I've heard from families who have kids in the lower years at Lyceum that it is much better than it used to be - and the kids in my daughter's year are perhaps suffering from the hangover of various difficulties that happened a few years ago. It's entirely possible that what's happening in my daughter's year is not indicative of what it will be like for kids starting the early years of the school now.

As AWEB writes, it is not a particularly academic prep school at the moment - and that is the root of a lot of my issue with the school as I was (mis)sold specifically an academic prep that still had time for music and a wide curriculum. So if you're not looking for academics, it could be a good fit (plus the girls uniform is pretty cute!).

@ExpatMomOf1 Thanks again for taking the time to reply. Yes - it definitely presents itself as an academically excellent prep school with an emphasis pastoral care, music and the arts. Hopefully that's what it is becoming...? We don't want the pressure-cooker hot-house experience where nothing matters except exam results, but we would want our child to be stretched. Out of interest, were there any other schools that you considered?

I would love to hear from any other Lyceum parents who stumble across this thread!

@GentleParent, not sure where you are based, but have you looked at any of the following? Depending on if you have a DS or DD
St Christopher's
The Cavendish
Northbridge House School
Lyndhurst
St Anthony's
King Alfred
All of which are considered more academic than The Lyceum with good pastoral care. The Cavendish is known for it's high standard of music.

Also, what parents are looking for in nursery and reception, is rarely the same as in Years 4 - 6.

@Soma - They're really good suggestions, thank you. But unfortunately Hampstead / Camden / Primrose Hill would be a hellish commute for us. No good way of getting there and it would just add too much pressure to the daily grind and take away from family time / after school stuff. We're restricted to East London or The City.

We've looked at Lyceum, Dallington, Rosemary Works, Forest School and Charterhouse Square. Lyceum seemed to come out on top.

Also liked Charterhouse Sq, but Lyceum had a nicer "feel"... We were a little put off by the uncertainty of the ballot system at Charterhouse, and by the fact that they make them start aged 3. I don't want a 3 year old commuting to and from the city every day - bad enough that we're considering it aged 4!

We have a nice (but quite large) primary at the end of our road, rated Ofsted outstanding (for all that means...?). Local parents seem very happy with it. We're trying to figure out if The Lyceum is enough of a step up to justify the commute, lack of friends on the doorstep and expense.

[I feel a bit cringey writing all this, btw. I'm aware that it's a nice problem to have and realise we're very lucky! Thanks for all the responses]

@GentleParent, in that case, I would take the large primary school at the end of the road. We didn't take the large outstanding primary at the end of our road, and opted for a tiny prep out of the area, which was a mistake. We noticed that most parents further up the school were very dissatisfied with what the school had to offer older children. Also and the choice for friendships and play dates were limited partly because we were out of the area. We eventually moved to a larger prep school nearer home which was excellent.

You have nothing to lose by taking the state school place, and a lot to gain. Also there is no reason why you can not move at the end of Year 2 to Charterhouse or Lyceum, they are unlikely to be over subscribed.

@GentleParent, the other City school that you don't mention in the list of those you've looked at is St. Paul's Cathedral School. Excellent academics, and also very good creative arts - music in particular is outstanding.

@Methren Thanks for replying! We discounted St Paul’s Cathedral School early on… Our concern was that it wouldn’t be a very “normal” school experience to have your classmates singing Evensong at St Paul’s, wearing ruffs and popping into the recording studio. To be honest, I’m a little intimidated by it.

I went to an Oxbridge college from a relatively ordinary background, and I encountered quite a few people there who had spent their first 18 years of life moving from one hallowed institution to another - I’m not sure it did them much good. I would be worried about how an education in such a unique setting would shape a child’s world view - because school is where you learn what the world is like, as well as learning your times tables…?

But perhaps I’m being unfair. It might be more grounded and less Rees-Mogg than I’m imagining! We might well go and have a look, so we’re basing this on more than assumptions - thanks again for the suggestion!

@Soma - Thank you. I'm starting to come around to this way of thinking! I also think we will know so much more about what our son needs from a school when he is a little bit older. And surely he wouldn't be so desperately behind in 2-3 years that he couldn't catch up?? (This is my partner's worry - he went to a very academic school and remembers bright kids who transferred later from good primaries being completely at sea and never catching up)

Am I right in thinking that places do tend to open up in older year groups because families move out of London etc?

@GentleParent, SPCS is very much a "normal" prep school that also happens to educate the Cathedral Choristers. There are about 35 choristers in a school of 260 pupils, so choristers are the minority in any case. There is no distinction made between the choristers and day pupils, either by the staff or the pupils. The choristers' singing commitments take place before and after school so aren't really "visible" to the rest of the school. There are weekly assemblies for the whole school held in the cathedral, so it's a space that all the pupils are familiar with and comfortable singing in. The standard of music is very high across the whole school, and there are just as many talented musicians amongst the day pupils as the choristers. If you discounted the school without seeing it in person, I would recommend visiting (once the Covid madness is over); the school has a lovely atmosphere.

@Methren - Yes, I think it would be a good idea for us to have a look (when / if we return to some version of normal?!). My worry isn't so much about a divide between choristers and non-choristers, it's more about something like a weekly assembly at St Paul's Cathedral feeling normal and comfortable to anyone! On the one hand, it's a wonderful privilege for something so extraordinary to be part of the fabric of daily life - but I came across so many people at university who were left deeply blasé and (sorry to say it) entitled by moving seamlessly from one headline, world-class institution to another. Private schooling is obviously a massive privilege full stop - but I'm anxious about how far to push it!

We should definitely go and have a look, though - as I say, much of this might just be my own prejudices after one too many negative encounters with entitled young men at university!!

I came across so many people at university who were left deeply blasé and (sorry to say it) entitled by moving seamlessly from one headline, world-class institution to another.

I understand your concerns, but our experience has been just the opposite. The pupils (and parents) develop a genuine connection with and affection for a place of great beauty and historical and spiritual significance, and understand very well how fortunate they are to have such a close association with the Cathedral. Yes, by default the school is a place of privilege as most private schools are, but it is definitely not the type of school where things like wealth or social status matter; the school ethos, and that of the vast majority of parents, is refreshingly down-to-earth.

@Methren Thanks again! Hopefully everything will calm down before too long and things like open days / tours will start up again, so we can have a look...

So, just before the lockdown, the Lyceum actually suggested that we switch to St Paul's Cathedral as it is more selective and academic - but I resisted as I don't want my daughter to be at a new school just for year 6 and then have to settle into a new school for secondary school. It may be interesting for you to know though, that I am at least the second parent in my daughter's year to be given this as a solution when asking the Lyceum to challenge their daughter. I do wish I'd considered the school before, @Methren. Your description sounds amazing and I bet my daughter would have loved it!

@GentleParent, we knew DC at St Paul's Cathedral School and the parents couldn't fault the atmosphere and the pupils. Their DC did well and got scholarships to senior schools. Their one complaint was some of the other parents were a bit OTT, a house manager for this, housekeeper for that, and a driver for that, etc. It was probably just their year group and a terrible West London stereotype. Also, this was a while ago.

But you get that at most London prep schools. I thought my DC's prep school was very ordinary, but there were DC with drivers, but they were perfectly lovely.

@ExpatMomOf1, interesting that The Lyceum was actively sending pupils in the direction of SPCS rather than improving their own academic standards.

@Soma, yes to the occasional OTT parent, but housekeepers and drivers are most definitely not the norm at SPCS (can't think of a single example, in fact) - I would have run a mile if it had been!I

@Soma - Thank you! I guess there will always be a few families like that at a private school...

@ExpatMomOf1 - That's a bit of a concern! I'd be very unhappy to be told that...

Hope you don't mind me drilling down into this, but what was it that they felt they couldn't accommodate in terms of more academic challenge? Were they refusing to send home more advanced level reading / not setting homework / letting your daughter drift in the classroom if she finished her work before other pupils...? Surely with their class sizes, they can teach to the level of each individual child?

At the open day we attended, they mentioned "Mini Professors", which they said involves more advanced work for small groups where appropriate? Was that offered?

Hi everyone
I just have a question about where I can buy second hand uniform for Lyceum as my son is joining the Lyceum nursery and stay only For a year as we have to move next year I felt it’s better to buy used one . It would be really a great help .
Thank you

@jtoky for used uniforms, maybe try some classmates’ with older siblings? I know there are always used uniforms that people are happy to pass off to someone else. Sometimes PTA’s will organise some used uniform sales/exchanges at the start of school so likely you won’t need to buy everything up front.

What’s so interesting about this thread is how different parents’ points of views can be about schools and education. In most countries, people tend to go to their local schools and there isn’t the challenge of trying to figure out “the BEST” school for a four-year-old child, unless your child has different needs.

Having spent so many hours discussing school experiences with other parents, we’ve realised that the two main variables are the other parents and the headmaster. Much like a CEO, the headmaster sets the tone for the school and will really impact whether the school does well or not. How the other parents behave is what will likely decide if you will feel comfortable at the school.

But at the end of the day, when you choose a school, it’s very difficult to just go off the reputation as so much can change. You basically go in hoping for the best. Keep in mind plenty of parents end up deciding to change schools!

I would like to respond to some messages here and elsewhere on Mumsnet re the Lyceum. The Lyceum has been through some massive changes over the last 5-10 years, which I have seen having had 3 children at the school in various year groups during that time. Historically there was certainly a focus on music/arts/ creativity and children's well being (any bad thing?!) over academic 'push' in all years (although children still went onto good secondaries). But the new headmistress and leadership team have turned that around so that the focus on the individual child and creativity is still there, but alongside the structure and academic focus that is needed to reach their potential and face the 11 plus exams. The strength of the Lyceum is that is manages academic excellence while creating confident and well rounded children.

I think in selecting a school parents need to recognise that not all children are 'academics', so a school can help them reach their potential and find their strengths (which may not be academic and so strong music, arts etc helps them explore other avenues) but cannot change the essence of your child. Yes, they could push and push on academics only but I would wonder then about the mental health of the child and whether they will be happy in a purely academic secondary school. There is also some responsibility at home for e.g reading, practicing timestables and encouraging your child to be a 'good learner'. Secondary schools put as much emphasis on school reports and how children perform in interviews, and the Lyceum children are always highlighted as excelling in this area with their quiet confidence and enthusiasm for life.

I have never been aware of 'streaming' for subjects at the Lyceum and there is certainly no differentiation between girls and boys - all children are given equal opportunities to excel and there is a new Gifted & talented programme and additional support for those who need it (to come into full force after lockdown).

If you want a school which pushes a child to breaking and to be something they are not just to get into a particular secondary school, then maybe the Lyceum is not for you. But if you want a warm, friendly and nurturing environment which provides creative but structured learning to enable your child to fulfil THEIR potential, then this is the place.

(just as an aside my children have gone to Channing and Highgate from the Lyceum and their leavers destinations are impressive and varied, and advice from the Lyceum very much tailored to the child in question, rather than putting round pegs into square holes)

Thanks for the update! We looked at Lyceum and felt it had improved massively over recent years. The new building is 100 times nicer than the old one and great that they finally have a bit of outdoor space. I liked the emphasis on mental health with the yoga studio and things like worry jars and open door policy of their Deputy Head of Pastoral, who seemed excellent. They still have an emphasis on music, and the same Head of Music who seemed so central to the culture of the school in their old location and I assume still is.

Talking to the Head it is clear that she is putting a lot more emphasis on the academics (without wanting to turn it into a hot house).

The fussiness and expense of the uniform still brings me out in hives (summer and winter HATS!!!), but definitely worth revisiting for parents who may have last seen it before the move and been put off by the building.

Although we went for a different school in the end that we really fell in love with (SPCS) we definitely liked the Lyceum and thought it was a good option.

In terms of the concern about children growing up entitled/blasé about their privilege, as @GentleParent raised, I think it's a worry with all private schools. I also went from state school to Oxbridge so I know exactly the "type" that you're talking about. If we had good state schools that we could get into and were not too huge (DC have special needs that mean a small school environment is likely to be better) then we would have jumped at it. I am hoping that parental input can overcome that - and I am reassured by the fact that the family of children I know who went to one of these schools are lovely and grounded. I think upbringing at home is still probably the major factor, but definitely something to watch out for.

@LightTripper - it sounds like we met some of the same boys!

Re- Lyceum... We really liked it when we looked around, but are still undecided. The location worked for us when we were commuting to the city every day - but if working from home is going to be much more common in a post-pandemic world (with perhaps just 1 or 2 days in the office), it's suddenly much less convenient... We can't be the only family in this position - I imagine lots of pupils don't live near schools in the city but have parents who commute in for work - I wonder what sort of impact this will have on numbers at city-based schools?