Renting to get into a school

[twee1]

So by my reckoning I think this is the fourth professional working couple I have heard of who has rented to get their child into a school.

I do not know this latest couple well at all but was introduced to them in passing by some local friends so my sniping is about a true case I am not making this up.

Latest example just seems so blatant, they move to a new road, rent a new place in a street that now locals can not afford, put their home out to rent and voila - right before the school year suddenly they manage to get a place in one of the outstanding primary schools in Greenwich.

I have friends who live further out than where they are, but not by much we are talking about the next street away and for the last two years these existing homeowners just can't get their children into their most local school in part due to the high demand for renters closer to the school. My friends have accepted schools further out.

I fire I just really wonder how do people have the cheek? I don't believe it is a case of their not being a decent choice either but obviously you need enough money and cheek to mobilise and fake moving house for a while without being caught.

Do council rules not apply when schools become academies? It is just that in Greenwich it seems so prevalent.

How do you stop this sort of thing?

Also my children are not impacted so I don't really know why I find it so annoying - I think it is just the injustice and the attitude that goes with it - like the spouting of people along the lines of "oh little johnny or Jill got in thankfully we had to pull some strings otherwise we would have had to pay private etc etc "

Rant over...maybe I just need to accept the inequality and move on ....

It's fraud!!

You can report them if you are that annoyed - otherwise shrug and move on

I guess at some level I feel it would cause grief to their child to report fraud it seems serious to do something like that - I guess I am not making sense at all .. off to ponder.

Also thinking about it .... I don't think it may be fraud if they move and rent a place and then rent out their existing house.

Anyhow back to work for me and listening to a boring presentation ... . I believe if they got the school place and then moved back to their original house it would have been fraud though.

Just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Not all people renting are necessarily committing a fraud. Friends rent, they saved hard for a deposit with two small children, he was a year out of work, she only working part time, by the time he was back in work the deposit was partly gone, a third pregnancy, unplanned, through again all calculations out of the window. Rent was actually more than a mortgage payment would be but no lender gave them money. They now have enough to go for a house, 7 years after they originally thought they could do it.

And we are talking about highly skill professionals, living with huge student dept.

When they applied for the first school place the council examined and re-examined their rental contract. When they applied for the second school place 2 years later, same address, they again had to go through a stricter process than home owners despite the second DC being a sibling and therefore on top of the admission list anyway.

So, while I am sure there are people playing the system most councils are checking very carefully.

It's not fraud unless the move is temporary. Different LA's set the bar differently on this, but I think usually under 12 months is considered temporary. I'm sure these people will manage to stick it out in the rented property for at least 12 months.

We did this.

Sold house near horrible secondary school.

Moved five miles out to different county, lived in rented as we couldn't afford to buy size and type of house we wanted to live in and DC went to local primary and then local secondary.

Bought a house and rent it out (too small for us).

It's not fraud, it's called doing the best and what is within your power for your children. We couldn't afford to privately educate but this was the next best thing.

On a side not we didn't do anyone out of a place, secondary school has 1500+ on roll, covers a massive catchment area and all surrounding villages are in catchment. Appreciate its different in cities but you pays your money you takes your chance.

thegirlupnorth see you could pay the money and take your chances which shows the unfairness of it all

.. and yes they probably will stick it out and be able to pay the inflated rent

If what you've said is true then it's fraud. Not that I don't believe you, it's just it's always difficult to know the full facts. It wouldn't be fraud for example if they'd only ever rented, or sold a property and rented.

I'm surprised Greenwich as a London borough haven't cottoned on. It's not an area in know but I assumed most London areas were on to this sort of crime.

Still seeing the evidence of past cheaters in siblings though.

I'd call the council fraud line if I were you as this causes huge stresses to families and the local community. If they've done nothing wrong nothing will happen.

noramum these people certainly didn't seem to hold themselves out as having money issues - and I think they would have even considered private school - and usually I would imagine the rent near this school would be very very high but I do understand your point and understand people can move for genuine reasons

paperclipmover see I don't think Greenwich council have cottoned into this. I think it is probably quite widespread and it they move to rent long term then I think they will get away with it and be able to argue their way out of it.

I meant you pay your money.....as in spend it where you think best.

Why is it unfair?

The bottom line is it's not fraud if they live there.

Or anyone that rented would be committing fraud if they owned a property elsewhere.

Unfair is a subjective word.

Admissions fraud is objective in that there are legal rules as to what parents can and can't do to get their children into a school. Renting out a house they have previous lived in, moving into another rented property nearer the school, then moving back to the original property is fraud.

The school admissions authorities don't even need to prove fraud, they can not give the school place, or remove it and the parents may need to prove that what they have done is legal.

THegirlupnorth it's a real problem in London and other high density areas, especially with a growing population of children in certain birth years.

These admissions authorities have cracked down on what has always been illegal but they may have turned a blind eye on in the past. Maybe in your area it's not a huge problem so the blind eye is still turned?

Twee I imagine the school being it's own admissions authority has enabled people to slip through the net. Maybe Greenwhich would check with their own schools, if hey have any left, but the school itself should check in the case of an academy? It's probably in an academys best interest to have interested parents who will go to any length for their children.

And yes twee some of these parents have skins of iron-I could tell you stories...

Thanks for your post paperclipmover

I think you are right - the school in question is now an academy so one would think that some may see it at risk of losing some of it's appeal - but was rated outstanding when it has it's last Ofsted rating - some time ago.

I am sure the academy will be fine with the ridiculous house prices and pupils who are from families with money rather than having children who have free school meals.

The thing is this couple will get away with it, they will have resources and money and be in the know and work the system to their advantage.

thegirlupnorth what I meant was I think it is unfair as they will be able to pay a ridiculous amount to rent to get their child in. All the while others who would normally have got their child into their local school won't have a chance and certainly won't be in a position to get their child in. Also when it works out this couple will move back to their house their local schools won't have the same mix of the community because the outstanding school attracts now a certain type because of what people do to pay to get in and so the cycle repeats.

Happens all the time where I live (home counties). Some councils in London are hot on it, ours isn't.

By NOT allowing this though it means only people who can afford to rent "in catchment" long term or pay a high premium to buy a property in the area can buy school admission. The cost of renting to get admission is lower, so more people can afford it!

Obviously there are many people who can't afford to do either.

It's been going on for years in the borough of Wandsworth, because the schools have sibling places at the top of the admission criteria
So rent to get your first child in and then the rest are guaranteed...

They changed the rules last year so that in-catchment siblings are still top of the list, but siblings who now live more than 1000m from the school go below in-catchment children

The catchment for the 2 most popular primaries near me went from 250m and 400m to over 900m, so it gives you an idea of the scale of the abuse of the system...

Just smile nicely when the school is in special measures and changed to an academy.
It's very rare for a school to remain outstanding for the full time your children attend.

It's not fraud but if you are convinced it is then do report it.

Different LAs have different rules.

Because the DCs schools are that well sought after they have implemented certain rules. Mainly that you have to provide x no of months utility bills etc from said address.

Thankfully it doesn't work like that here. If you're not top or the list and there's not a space, you're waiting like everyone else. Whether you live next door to the school or 3 miles away.

Also thinking about it .... I don't think it may be fraud if they move and rent a place and then rent out their existing house.

That's not what will possibly constitute fraud though. It's the using the house as your main residential address, when it isn't.

Are you suggesting that only homeowners should be able to apply to the local school? Because moving house, either bought or rented, to be near good schools is surely one of the most common reasons for ever moving?

How do people have the cheek to expect taxpayer to foot the bill when they can afford a house in Greenwich? Because they are entitled and cheeky that's how!

gillybeanz thanks too true - I will smile - I don't really know the couple at all as I met them through a friend but I will probably see them around now and then and I will smile through gritted teeth .... and feign surprise at their admission ...

As infuriating as I feel about it - it won't be fraud as they will ( I am sure) ensure they stay renting long enough to not be in the radar.

Thank you everyone for your posts too

secretfreebirther no that is not what I am saying - just in my experience it seems to be home owners renting another place to move too and paying a premium to do so - while keeping their existing home which they will then move back to when their school places for children are secure - can you not see the moral issue with that?

ttfb houses are very expensive now in Greenwich but they were not always the case - so there will be people who bought a long time ago and their catchment for schools has shrunk as prices increase by the outstanding school and as high rents spike near this school.