Changed oversubscription criteria - from when do they apply for in-year admissions?

[brilliotic]

So if a faith school that is its own admissions authority changes its oversubscription criteria, from when do the new criteria apply for in-year applications/administration of the waiting list?

The school changed their policy significantly for reception 2018 entry. The new policy was adopted in January 2017 but obviously does not apply for reception 2017 entry.

But from when does the new policy apply for (non reception) wait list administration?
From January 2017 when the policy was adopted, or from the new school year/when the new admissions round opens i.e September 2017, or from September 2018 when the reception kids for whom the new policy applies first start, or another date entirely?

Thanks in advance!

you need to call them and ask.

It could be any of the above. You'll need to get more information from the school or the diocese/parish. Although they are in charge of their own admissions, the admissions, the local authority should also be able to tell you as they still have overall responsibility for ensuring all children have a school place.

Thanks both.

I meant for this post to be in Primary Education. Don't know how it ended up here! Have reported myself and asked for it to be moved.

Hi there brilliotic - we're going to move this one over for you in a mo .

Bumping, and just to add that I spoke to a governor who (although part of the admissions sub-committee or something) wasn't quite sure himself. He suspected it would probably start applying to the waiting list rankings from September 2018, when the reception children for whom it applies start school.

This seems entirely plausible, though IMO a few other dates are equally plausible; and the governor's uncertainty over the question did not fill me with confidence.
For it to only start applying to waiting lists in Sept 2018 would mean, for instance, that after the reception 2018 places have been allocated in April 2018, the new reception entrants waiting list would have different rules than the rules for the waiting lists for the rest of the school for four months of so, until they'd come back into sync in September.

I'm still wondering if there might be a general rule about this, or some way that it is usually handled? Any admissions experts here who know?

In case it matters, the new rules prioritise 'out of catchment' siblings over 'in catchment' first-borns, whereas up to now, everyone 'in catchment' came before anyone 'out of catchment', sibling or not. So this could potentially affect quite a lot of people, including a friend of mine, which is why I'm asking.

It obviously applies to all the pupils who are starting in reception in September 2018, so would apply to the initial allocation of places and then to all waiting list places as they come up from April 2018. In terms of the other school years it should say in the admission criteria when it was to apply to but generally it is usually considered to be in the September when the school year starts.
The grey area is when an appeal panel is faced with the appellant saying well it will apply in September 2018, so why can't it apply now but the panel should be using the admission criteria which is still current for the rest of the school. Even more of a grey area is any appeal from the middle of June 2018 for a start in September when the panel should be using the new admission criteria.

Thanks admission.

but generally it is usually considered to be in the September when the school year starts I take this to mean September 2018, is that correct? Not Sept 2017 i.e. now.

It's just that I would have thought that Sept 2017 would have made sense too, as it is when the new admissions round (to which the new rules apply) opens, so why not apply the new rules to everyone from the same time. From your next paragraph I infer that you probably mean Sept 2018 but just checking to make sure.

My friend who is on the waiting list is waiting for a Y3 place to come up. A place did come up for Sept 2017 start and if the new criteria had applied, it would most likely have been theirs (sibling, out of catchment; the place went to in-catchment non-sibling, in line with the old rules), which would have been ideal as the child was leaving an infant school in July. So they are feeling a bit frustrated. If they went to appeal (they probably won't) - would this be worth pointing out at all? Seeing as they neglected to state in the policy from when it would apply for waiting lists - would it arguably be fair to assume that a policy dated January 2017 should affect Sept 2017 waiting list management? But as it is no longer ICS, does it matter much to argue about interpretation of rules, (to argue that they made a mistake) or should their appeal focus on the balance of prejudice only?

It's just that I would have thought that Sept 2017 would have made sense too, as it is when the new admissions round (to which the new rules apply) opens, so why not apply the new rules to everyone from the same time

No, that would definitely be wrong. The Admissions Code is clear that there must be a waiting list until at least Christmas and that it must use the same criteria that were used for determining entry. The 2018 criteria therefore cannot be used for the current Reception year so it would not make sense to apply them for any other year. I would be very surprised if your friend could win an appeal by arguing that the school should be using the new criteria already. I think your friend should focus on the balance of prejudice.

The Admissions Code is clear that there must be a waiting list until at least Christmas and that it must use the same criteria that were used for determining entry.

Thanks prh, that makes it very clear. It therefore wouldn't make sense to apply the new criteria to waiting lists before January 2018 at the earliest.
After that I suppose it becomes more and more arguable the more time goes by (seeing as there is no date given), with places for September 2018 that are allocated towards the end of the 17/18 school year realistically determined by the new rules.

This has been very helpful, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

My friend doesn't want to go to appeal as she has another child at the school (and is hoping for a place for DC3 in the future) and is worried about souring the relationship with the school by taking them to appeal. She may have children at that school for another decade. She would only have entertained the idea if it would have been a fairly clear cut case of 'they didn't apply their own rules correctly' which for now does not seem to have been the case.

I think she is overthinking it. Schools face admission appeals all the time. It is highly unprofessional if they allow it to sour their relationship with the parents concerned. I can't say it never happens but I've never come across it.

Some schools are very happy to have a few more children in Y3 and above as that gives them extra funding, but they prefer it to happen by parents winning appeals rather than the school admitting beyond PAN.

An appeal would not sour relations with the school!

That's what I've been telling her too, but she doesn't want to risk it. I think if the child settles at their new Junior school now, she will probably end up leaving them there.

I don't know why but there are no classes in the school that have more than 30 children, nor have there been in recent history. Despite being a 'desirable' school. Maybe there have been few/no appeals, or the school is very good at 'winning' at appeal panels. I suspect the former (few appeals) because IMO the 'old' oversubscription criteria were very open to appeal (church attendance required, but no 'evidence' system in place, you just had to hope the priest noticed how often you had attended church and was happy to sign the form for you). I can't imagine an appeal panel upholding that routinely, so I suspect it's more a case of most parents who didn't get a place choosing not to appeal. Maybe because they worry about 'soured relations'...

An appeal would not sour relations with the school!

Do you know how much an appeal costs a school? It might not sour relationships but there will be a deep sigh as they shell out.

Do you know how much an appeal costs a school?

The appeal panel is unpaid so, unless the school is paying someone to provide an appeal panel, the only costs should be the panel's expenses, the clerk and the time involved in putting together and presenting the school's case. Schools receive funding to cover the cost of appeals, although this may be insufficient if they have a lot of appeals.

Around my area the schools that are academies tend to use the LA admission appeal service because it is easier to let them do all the admin work etc. The cost to the school is apparently £500 plus £50 per appellant.
As PRH says if the school has a good number of appeals the level of funding that the schools receive is less than the costs involved, ignoring staff time etc.