Feel like turning down 1st choice primary school but can't.

[CanIhave]

I'm really in a state about this and wanted to find out how other people would deal with this situation.

My DD has been accepted for her 1st choice primary school. Fab - wonderful Ofsted, teachers etc. But (many) the parents (mainly mums I'm afraid) are a known nightmare. I've run across a few of them at her preschool, and I'm talking BMW and Mercedes 4 wheel-drives, Waitrose, and anyone not living in anything less than a £1 million house is studiously ignored in favour of lots of air kissing between those who do (many of them). In many weeks of waiting outside preschool for DD, I have rarely been smiled at or talked with any of them (despite trying). Only thing they wanted to know was which primary DD would be going to!

Unfortunately, their attitudes are carried over to their kids, who made life very unpleasant for DD at preschool (ignoring her and refusing to let her join in etc) with one little charmer even taking to regularly hitting her (pre school staff ignored this because this mum was one of the 'in' crowd that they don't want to upset). In the end I just took her out. (These kids will be going on to the primary she is going to).

Shes been doing fine since being home with me, when suddenly the "You've been accepted to your 1st choice school" letter plopped onto the mat. Everyone's been telling me how happy I should feel, but actually I feel quite sick inside at the prospect of having to see these mums (twice a day) and DD having to see their kids. DD has told me that if she has to see any of them she will "run out of the school and run away."

I spoke to another mum (whose daughter is now leaving the school) and her comments were: "If you think that lot (of mums) are bad up at the preschool, you wait until you see them in action at the school. They think they run the show."

I've desperately rung round the other schools in the area, but all are saying that they are now full, can put me on their waiting list, but don't hold out too much hope etc.

What to do?????

FWIW nobody much at the school spoke to me after the first week (when they realised how common I was I think). For ages I hated it, really well off snobby clique- CofE school, nice village, half the kids go to private after-

After about a year though I discovered a few other misfit mums and now people talk to me. Not loads you understand, especially since ds1 and ds3 stand out a bit, but there's usually someone, and its not a huge part of the day you spend waiting there anyway is it?

I think there is a difference between you getting on with the mums and your daughter making friends.

She could make a great bunch of friends - girls you're not even aware of yet from other nurseries - and have a good time and get an excellent education.

Are you a regular who ahs changed name, CanIhave ? (It's just I noticed this was your first post under this name....)

I'm sorry, but to be honest I think you are working yourself up a bit too much about this.

Our infant school has a 'gang' of mums who whizz in in their 4x4s, flaunt their ££ and terrorize all the others. Their kids are jumped up little T*ssers and spolit brats. But I soon found the other mums like myself (and there WILL be some) and we rallied together and diffused the issue sometimes, and at other times we just laughed at them.

Don't let them get to you, and stop listening to idle gossip from everyone else. IMO childminders/ nannies will always bitch about the yummymummy types anyway.

I'm sorry, but I do think you need to set your daughter a good example by tackling this head on, especially if this will be the best school for her educationally.

I think you should keep your place at this school but ask to be put on the waiting list for the other schools. That way you will have a place for your dd somewhere. If your dd starts school at your original first choice and ends up liking it then you can take her off the waiting list at the others; if she doesn't like it then keep her on the waiting list, keep in touch with the schools and hopefully she will get a place later in the year. Good Luck

Legacy
Not a regular. Have only just joined.
They're not really yummymummy types, its hard to describe them really. Totally influenced by status, money, prestige etc. Lots of plummy voices, very overbearing.

I have to take Dd1 to ballet where all of the mums are better off than me and don't speak to me. I am a single mum living on a council estate but my dd is is so good at ballet, wbhy should i deny her the oppurtunity to have lessoins with a fab teacher.

If you like the school then go for it, nbever mind what the other mums are liike.

I think you should calm down.

Firstly, there are always people who will spread rumours about schools regardless of the actual accuracy. Even if that's their perception, you may not see things that way once your dd starts, unless you go in with that expectation.

Secondly, it is always a bit unsettling to be the new girl in the playground, and easy to assume that the injokes and existing friendships are a deliberate attempt to exclude you. In most cases they probably aren't and if you go out of your way to be relaxed and friendly, there's no reason why you shouldn't be accepted in most places.

Thirdly, most schools actually have much more movement in places than they make out. Lots of people don't take up Reception places, or move shortly after. We were offered places at three v. oversubscribed schools that we were well out of catchment for at various times over dd1's first year at school. So if you do try the first choice school, give it a fair chance and really decide after a few terms that it's not right, you'll almost certainly be able to get an alternative.

Just keep your nerve and see how things turn out.

If they're such a bunch of posh snobby git arseholes, what are they doing sending their children to the local state school?! Not as much money as they like to think they've got, perhaps??

By the way, when DS1 was being treated unfairly by some teachers at school I found a chat with the LEA helped massively!

IMO the schools actions towards the kids is mroe of an issue than the prents behaviours. If you felt you had to remove DD before because she was bullied and it wasnt dealt with, that is a HUGE issue. talk to the LEA, but also if she is saying she won't go take preventative measuers: see your GP and talk to them about your DD's stress and say you are V concerned. make sure it is on her medical records. Then also speak to the LEA about he seeing an Ed Psych as she is threatening to run away.

These things form an arsenal of things you can use in your attempts to get into another school.

Then, when you have these in place (dont wait for the Ed Psych- can be a while) go see the Admissions Dept at the LEA and have a frank chat. Don't take the 'the parents are cows' line, say you removed your DD from their care previously as she was being bullied and it wasn't dealt with sufficently, and she is now scared of going to the school.

I had a real problem when my ds started school because I'm too "posh" and people didn't want to talk to me! Well, they talked to me, but I heard them arranging outings and things and never included me. Eventually I plucked up the courage to say "You know that curry evening - please can I come?" They were amazed - they "didn't think I'd want to" but they were very happy to include me once they understood that I wanted to be included and I have made some very good new friends. Don't expect to meet soul mates at the school gates - you probably won't, but you should be able to make "going for a coffee" friends. And remember what we're all always telling our children - people probably aren't looking at us, talking about us, thinking about us or ignoring us - it just sometimes feels that way. And if it's a good school and the right one for your child, then go for it - don't miss out on soemting good for your dd because of the Stepford Bt*es!

Message withdrawn

Thanks for all this advice. I know its hard for people to be definite, but at about what time do the places in other schools start coming up? I spoke to one of the schools about this and the secretary said that for example, she'd just had notification that 2 girls would be leaving their reception in the summer term (after having been there for nearly a year). I just felt totally disheartened at the prospect of having to wait a year. Do they ever come up in the run up to September? Wouldn't people have already sent their slips back confirming their places by now?

PeachyClair
I'm concerned about going down the GP/ LEA/ Ed Psych. route in case the school views my DD as having the problem, rather than there having been a problem at the (private) pre school that she attended, with the staff refusing to admit that stuff was going on. The fact that some of the staff from the pre school are also staff and parents at the primary makes it even more complex. I don't know how discrete the teachers will be about any discussions with them and/or whether they will take the view of the staff from the private pre school that work there.

Thats understandable- they would listen to the private pre-school (how could they not to take a balanced view) but they do listen ime to both parties.

Have you tried telephoning Kidscape? I did and they were fab- had loads of advice about just this sort of thing.

FWIW I asked the LEA to be discreet about my complaint and they were.

My Sister has had a similar experience, actually. Her DS1 (6) attends a private school in London. My Sister felt that it took her a long time to make any friends, and she still feels that she doesn't fit in. Basically, most of the other Mothers are the 'dahling' air kissy types, and my Sister feels that she's too common. Perhaps she is compared to them, but she's not common as such, just calls a spade a spade, doesn't have a posh accent etc. She and my BIL only send their Son to a private school due to the lack of good state schools in their area.

Eventually, she met a few Mums who are more on her wavelength, and together they actually have a good laugh at the fur coat wearing brigade. You'll find some kindred spirits too, CanIhave, at the end of the day, you only need a couple.

Thanks Peachclair for that advice. Will ring Kidscape tomorrow.

HotCrossPenguin. The thing is some of the attitudes from the parents cross over to their kids - they're cliquey and it makes the kids that way. I'd just rather DD went somewhere a little bit more down to earth where there wasn't this "do you fit in?" type feel clouding everything.

I do understand why you feel that way. It just seems that there's not a lot you can do now, as like you said, the other schools are full. I guess all you can do, is send her to the school we've been talking about, meanwhile keep her on the waiting list at other schools, and hope for the best. Hopefully she'll settle and make nice friends and not be too affected by the cliquey kids. If not, you'll have to move her when a place at another school comes up. Either way, not easy. Not a nice situation to be in. I hope it works out for you and your DD. Good luck.

my dd started primary in jan and the teachers have done a great job of mixing up the children, helping them to make friends etc and actively not sitting 'cliquey' kids together

it is all very healthy and friendly and the children are very happy. About half went to the attached nursery and others did not but they have all made new friends.

i think trust the teachers and I am sure your dd will get a good education

there could be awful mothers at another school so I think it would be better for you to stick with this one - better the devil you know!

your note about the cliquey mums organising a social night rang bells - that has happened in my dd school. However, I don't think it is necessarily as nasty as you think - the girl who organised it at ours probably only told half the parents and I think that's because she didn't know who the other parents were. Also I think she got fed up with some people saying 'no' so she gave up after a while and stopped telling people. I think it can be a thankless task trying to organise parents to get together.

If you hear about something being organised, you could be really brave and pipe up 'is something being organised, id like to come along' etc or 'is there a list being put together' or offer to do it yourself.

I knew three parents when my dd started and I am a confident person but felt really uncomfortable (and still do!) in the playground. However, it soon became apparent that most other people did not know everyone either that well.

Its horrible for everyone - whether you are posh, poor, black, white, spotted etc...

Smile and talk to everyone, after about a year it all settles down and you will have hopefully found some kindred spirits. Concentrate on the kids that your daughter likes, invite them for playdates, you will slowly get to know the mums.

Everyone hates it, it is like going back to school yourself !!

There are about 6 normal mums at my children's school and we all stick together and laugh at the 4x4 owners, especially when they get a parking ticket once a week whilst us "walkers" get slimmer by the day.
They may actually be jealous of you.

I really really would get a childminder to do the drop offs and pick offs (what a terrible admission!) but they seem to operate an exclusion zone around the school! Just have to keep my fingers crossed that a few parents with children at the other schools have 'double-booked' with private schools or move.

Is there any one particular time when there is a lot of movement on the waiting lists? (desperate here!).

Are you sure you are not guilty of reverse snobbery? I live in a big house and shop at Waitrose (don't drive a 4X4 though!) as do some (but not all) of my friends and we would never treat other Mums as you are describing. I would always judge people on an individual basis according to how they came across to me. At my son's private nursery there are some parents like you describe - wealthy, 4x4's etc and some are awful - who I completely ignore, and some are lovely - who I have good chats with. Equally, there are some awful parents who live on council estates and drive like maniacs but also, some very pleasant ones.

I think maybe you need to work on your own confidence levels and not admit defeat before even trying - after all your daughter hasn't even started at the school and you are already assuming the worse - based on local gossip by the sounds of it. Maybe it is as bad as you say but I can't believe all the mothers are like that - are you sure you haven't misplaced confidence for arrogance? You also seem to be judging them on external things like the cars they drive and the houses they live in rather than anything they have actually said to you.

Surely women that were that rich, snobby, etc would be sending their children to private school anyway? And I think like others have said, the quality of your childs education is far more important. If the school has a good ofsted report and is oversubscribed then I find it hard to believe that it is staffed by teachers that actively encourage bullying and discrimination as you seem to think. Maybe they all just know each other better and so appear cliquey?

Think of all the people that are really upset becasue their child didn't get in to their first or even second choice schools.

Good luck. I hope it works out - maybe it won't be as bad as you think.

jdd0709. No, not being a reverse snob. I do live in a reasonably big house and occasionally shop at Waitrose, but they're not how I'd like to define myself. What I'm talking about here is the constant reference to these things in conversations that these mums have. For example, one got divorced recently and was loudly bemoaning how her £1.2 million divorce settlement was pitifully low and her husband was determined to see her live like a tramp!

I have had quite a lot of interaction with these women at the pre school, so its not a case of just making up my mind based on gossip/ rumours. If you read back through some of the posts you'll see the way they treated one woman who tried to talk to them.

My area does have a number of excellent state primaries and a couple of not so brilliant private schools, so the vast majority of parents (rich, poor and middle income) tend to opt for the state schools (makes a change!).

I've never said that the school teachers actively encourage bullying and discrimination. What I was discussing was whether or not the primary would listen to reports from untrained pre school staff or not.

I obviously feel for parents who didn't get their first or second choice primaries, but it doesn't necessarily make the situation any easier if your child is informing you that they will not go into their first choice school because they are scared of the children that have transferred from their old pre school and that they intend to run out! TBH, I'd rather have my 3rd choice now than have the constant worry of thinking she may be in tears or trying to run away from school.

The thing is at this moment that school is where your child is starting. So you - and she - have to find ways of dealing with thd dread. Time for a bit of positive thinking maybe. There'll probably be some sort of school visit before September so you can use that time to check out other friendlier mums and childreh.

Good luck. Often the things we dread turn out to be less awful than imagination painted them.