Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Yr 4 teacher unsatisfactory

80 replies

Shiraznowplease · 14/07/2017 04:08

So my ds has been placed in a yr 4 class with the teacher no one wanted. She appears not to like children and has been the subject over more than 20 complaint for substandard teaching. Several parents (my very reasonable sil included) have complained about lack of progress and the need to hire tutors. My ds is very capable (has previously had exceptional SAT results) but is laid back to the extent of almost horizontal, how do I ensure that the teacher keeps him (and his classmates engaged) and progressing. What should I been checking for? Will the headmistress be monitoring this teacher due to problems this year?

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Ginmummy1 · 14/07/2017 09:49

Of course it's a worry that your child has ended up being put with the teacher that is believed to be a poor one (whether fairly or not).

What I think I would do in your position is to keep a closer eye on your son's progress and satisfaction levels. Ask him regularly about his day, to get an impression of how it's going. If you have any questions, ask to speak to the teacher. Ideally find a reason for a brief chat in the first month or two. Try to build a positive relationship with the teacher early on.

That way, you'll (hopefully) be reassured that things are ok, and if they are not ok you will be able to identify specific problems early on and try to address them, firstly with the teacher before escalating if necessary.

Hopefully it will be better than you fear.

ingeniusnonsense · 14/07/2017 09:53

There are currently campaigns to say every day in school counts and every day missed even at primary will effect GCSE results,

Where???

Twillow · 14/07/2017 10:29

Missed school shit - what about pre-christmas fortnight, last two weeks os summer term and basically entire summer term of Y6 after SATS - bugger all learning going on yet kids still being threatened with fines for not being there, just so schools can keep their attendance rates up Angry

theEagleIsLost · 14/07/2017 12:09

There are currently campaigns to say every day in school counts and every day missed even at primary will effect GCSE results,

I'm in wales and bit of wales I'm in there is lots of this around. I now get a letter home every term telling me for each child telling me their attendance - which I already know - and a leaflet on about its long term implications - I think it’s a welsh Assembly new requirement.

Primary and secondary schools all have prominent banners about attendance figures.

We used to school in England where everyone had got used to culture of fines but fine have only recently been introduced in this area so parents are still doing term holidays and kids are off at slightest thing.

One of mine apparently had a great year and report records lot of progress but the actual Welsh tests show a drop from above average bit to just in average range – they have same teacher next year.

I don’t know if it was few bad says, the test this year or not making progress. Teacher’s lovely and child gets on well with them – we already do some maths at home so I’ll step up the reading.

The school isn’t going to change the teacher – so I’d go in with an open mind and keep an eye on the situation.

mrz · 14/07/2017 18:29

" the whole class SATS RESULTS are considerably down from last year and the other year 4 class are uneffected so it was not the paper" so the two classes are identical in ability and have identical home experiences and all slept well before the tests and weren't coming down with a cold or other minor illness ....etc etc ?

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/07/2017 20:18

Shiraznowplease

I think we will give her a term before seeing about private school

Why?

You have already made up your mind about the teacher and the results.

Why don't you save yourself (and the teacher) the stress and just move your DD now?

BubblesBuddy · 14/07/2017 20:34

Perhaps a bit of perspective is needed from a non teacher. I am a Governor though. This is what we do.

The Head looks very closely at the progress of all children in all year groups for every subject. She and the Deputy monitor the quality of teaching by classroom visits. We have external advisers in to do the same. The teachers swap and evaluate work samples to judge progress and that it is reported consistently across school. Any less than good teaching and progress may be a focus of the annual performance management of a teacher and evidence is scrutinised. CPD is offered where needed and mentoring and advice is available. No stone is left unturned to help a teacher improve. It is important and the Governors will also see the assessment evidence so there is no hiding place. Parents though don't see the whole picture. There are discussions in school about the competence of teachers and you have to trust them to get it right.

Parental complaints are (would be) investigated thoroughly according to the policy. (Not that we have had any).

It is perfectly true that parents do not know the starting points of these children so are not always best placed to judge progress. Clearly you are not in a classroom, but if you were, how would you know learning has taken place and progress made? A good Head will be making these judgements.

As a parent you should look at work books to see what work is done and be able to see an improvement over time. You can check that homework shows progression. You can check that your child is motivated and engaged at school. You should receive an overview of curriculum to be covered so you can monitor that it is on track. You can enthuse your child and give them encouragement.

Not all teachers are brilliant but you should assume the school is doing something about it. I would agree that if you have ongoing concerns you should see the Head and chat about lack of progress if you believe that to be the case. Assessment will be done during the first term so they should have data to show you. If you do not trust the Head then that is another matter of course.

Crumbs1 · 14/07/2017 21:22

I'd always say don't judge on gossip but go in with an open mind and assume teacher is satisfactory until proven otherwise for your child. Then and only then have the discussion with her/him. Directly, openly, honestly but not aggressively.
It does sound like you're trying to justify moving to the independent sector when no justification is necessary. Be careful though plenty of poor teaching in private schools.

MaryTheCanary · 15/07/2017 08:58

People are being quick to judge the OP. Yes, it's a good idea to inquire more carefully and try to get a handle on what is going on. But some teachers really are, like, incompetent. I'm pretty stunned that some posters seem to think that "oh, it's only Y4, so it doesn't matter much if the teacher is bit shite"...?

I would getting some tutoring sorted out if I had good reason to believe that my child was going to be stuck with the School Lemon and there were nothing I could do about it. A lot more cost efficient than moving to a private school (and would you even be able to get a place if you wanted to....?)

Trampire · 15/07/2017 09:22

I can't believe you'd move your child to a whole new school over one year when you didn't like the teacher?

My dd (sat the new SATS in 2016). She was always fairly bright at school. In Year 5, her teacher had a nervous breakdown (I only know this as his wife worked at the school office and told a few parents!). So for the first 4 months of the school year he was there but wasn't 'there' IYKWIM? He was scatty, forgetful, rude, inconsistent, and often just walked out. Parents could see something was up (no-one really complained though). He went on sick leave for a few months. In that time dd's class had 5 different supply teachers. At Easter, he left permanently. We then had another couple of supply's until we got a steady supply until the end of the Y5.
My dd says that permanent supply teacher was one of the best she'd ever had!

The next year, the whole class did brilliantly at SATS. Dd excelled herself and continues to go so at secondary school.

My point is, one year and one teacher does not ruin a whole education.

You are engaged as a parent. Engage more. Keep an eye out. Help at home. Communicate with the school. Don't write this teacher off before you start.
My dsis is a teacher at a Private School and sees some shocking teaching. It's not a catch-all promise.

mrz · 15/07/2017 09:26

Every year is important but if the OPs information is correct and there have been 20 complaints against this teacher it is unlikely they would still be there if there was any evidence to suggest their teaching is inadequate.

user789653241 · 15/07/2017 09:30

Mary, but op doesn't even know what teacher is really like yet. How can you write off a teacher just because you heard she/he is rubbish?

Gileswithachainsaw · 15/07/2017 09:37

Mary, but op doesn't even know what teacher is really like yet. How can you write off a teacher just because you heard she/he is rubbish?

In fairness when you are talking to multiple people who have had 3 or four kids each go through the same teachers and had the same problems each time surely they can't all be wrong?

Although I wouldn't necessarily believe all of it I would however be glad if the heads up so I can at least endure I keep an eye on things so I can make sure work doesn't slip etc

At my old school there was a teacher who was so nasty thatbeven when he died no one could say anything nice about him in the memorial assembly

toledanosunshie · 15/07/2017 09:38

I couldn't get over the whatsapp group either

We have a class whatsapp group for both my younger ones, fairly standard I thought. It's very useful for sharing info, checking what the spellings are, if anyone has a spare PE kit and other such fascinating questions. There's also one for our new year 7 class but I do think that by then it's a bit less necessary.

As for moving to a private school after just one term of a poor year 4 teacher. Words fail me. If she is rubbish yet the year 5 & 6 teachers are fine then look at getting a tutor to plug any gaps or do it yourself. Private schools are not immune to poor teachers and no, they don't always get rid of them and if they do then it's not going to be without a proper disciplinary process which takes time, they don't ask them to leave just because a few parents complain. Mine are at private school and all of them have had fairly rubbish teachers in year 3 or 4 but done absolutely fine by year 6.

user789653241 · 15/07/2017 09:53

Yes, I get what you are saying, but you never know, your child might be the perfect match for that particular teacher.

I had one teacher when I was a kid, that everybody hated. He was most inspirational teacher ever for me.

greathat · 15/07/2017 10:01

A teacher that had that many complaints made about them wouldn't still be there if there was any evidence for it. They'd be on competency and gone

randomer · 15/07/2017 10:08

Poor kids growing up with this crazed obsession with testing. Music? Drama? Fun? Being kind to classmates?

Witchend · 15/07/2017 10:38

Assuming she's taught year 4 for a number of years-otherwise I do not believe that she got more than 20-that's two thirds of a from complaints. If she did, then I would be certain that it was a witchhunt with people telling others to complain. You do not get 2/3 of people independently complaining even if there's something major to complain about.
In which case the results being down last year implies that she's either got worse-ie the results were better previously, or, more likely, she had a class whose natural talent was lower than previous.
It happens that one class is worse than another. I used to do some maths work in a school and there were two parallel classes. Class 1 I worked with the top and the second group. In class 2 I worked only with the top group and they didn't get it as well as the second group in the first class.

ParentingEnnuie · 15/07/2017 11:11

For the love of God, it's affect

NannyOggsKnickers · 15/07/2017 11:16

Wait, did you say you have photos of students' confidential results data on your Whatsapp? That is not ok. Where did you get it. That is a serious breach of data protection.

cantkeepawayforever · 15/07/2017 11:27

The what's app group shows photographic evidence that the children's results were inconsistent (actually written out by an independent body!)

That shouldn't have happened - it is a serious data protection breach and should be reported to the school for them to deal with. Who is it who posted those results publicly, and how did they obtain the data?

It is especially serious if specific pupils can be identified with specific results, but even at whole class level (e.g. Class A has 49% exceeding the expected standard whereas Class B has 35%) it shouldn't be reaching a Whatsapp group unless it has been published by the school in e.g. a newsletter.

cantkeepawayforever · 15/07/2017 11:30

[Should have said 'school or other body' - ie it is an intentional public release of data, not a making public (behind the school's back) of internal data.

Is the school aware of the WhatsApp group? A harmless 'lost PE kit' type group should be happy to be open to members of the school staff. One that does not have school staff as members, or one which the school is unaware of and prevented from accessing, is very different.]

randomer · 15/07/2017 11:39

Here's a crazy idea... Children grow and develop into their early 20's.they do this at different rates. They are not a homogeneous group of clones who hit their learning targets.

user1497480444 · 15/07/2017 11:40

she is probably gold, that one teacher who breezily agrees in the summer term, that yes, she is fine with taking the children of the most awkward and confrontational parents next year, no problem, she can cope with them....

Every school has one! And they are worshipped by the other staff!

cantkeepawayforever · 15/07/2017 11:47

I teach in a school with multiple parallel classes. Results from the different classes are ALWAYS different, because no two classes are identical, not because the teachers are of different quality. One year I may have great-looking results, the next year another class might have great-looking results.

However, as standards of teaching and learning within the school are closely monitored as a previous poster outlined, SLT have the ability to analyse the results, to look behind the 'headline data' and review the performance of each class in full knowledge of the context.

Whereas publishing 'raw data' on class performance to a wide group WITHOUT the ability to see behind the data can just lead to misunderstandings at best or, at worst, witch hunts against particular teachers.

In the course of a reasonable length teaching career, I have had parents complain about me, and have had parents write letters of congratulation about me. Each complaint hurts, of course, and each has been fully investigated and found not to be substantial or, most often, a question of perception - for example, a pupil might claim 'Ms Can't hates me', on the basis of being told off for a misdemeanour that they could reasonably expect to have been told off for. I, and all the colleagues I know, agonise and soul search when these situations arise, but in a profession all about interactions between people, perception can be very powerful both for good and ill.

The only advice i would give is not to pre-judge, and in particular to encourage your child not to pre-judge, as starting off from a perception of 'Ms X is awful' predisposes a negative perception of many otherwise neutral events.