Whichschoolwouldyouchoose?

[Neitherhisorthat]

I'm in a bit of a dilemma trying to decide between two primary schools.

One is a very large school, within walking distance, quite strict. It has a small range of extra curriculum activities and my feeling is because it is a large school, it would pick the 'cream of the crop' to make up teams and less sporty and academic children would be left by the wayside as long as they didn't cause trouble.
The other is half the size, a short drive away, less formal environment, with fewer rules and regulations and I feel my (quiet) children would benefit from this. It doesn't take part in as many activities but they make a point of including every child. As a result, they don't win much but it is all inclusive.
Neither school particularly outshines the other academically.

Which one would you choose if you had the choice and why?

Our area seems similar to yours Miaow. All the schools around us are large. I suppose that is part of the appeal of the second school. It is the only 'local' school that isn't huge!

There aren't little lunchtime clubs in the second (very big) school. I looked into it and tbh I was very surprised and disappointed. They seem to teach and go home. Basically they do their jobs and by all accounts they do it well. DC are in other clubs already and we will continue to do these outside of school. In the second school, there are additional clubs and quite a few but as I said in my other post, some of these seem to wane off and I don't know to what level they are taught.

My DDs primary is nearly 7 miles away (rural area) she loves the school though

Our distance is 6km. The thirty minute drive is mainly traffic and waiting at lights. It is 5km to walk as can take a shortcut. Does that make a difference. Probably not. It is too far isn't it.

Thats a good point re quality. My DC dont do some of the school run clubs as to be honest they are money for old rope if run by staff and not specialised providers. Depends on the teacher and can get cancelled. I was happy for them to go. The choice not to was my DCs choice - they lost interest and dont want to go. Too many kids, lots of sitting around at the ones they initially fancied.
They prefer 'proper' clubs e.g. Drama and sport run by specialists with low ratios.

Distance matters hugely IMO. My DCs primary (youngest DC is year 6 so we're nearly through) is 1/2 mile from home. The benefits IME are:

Friends close by, walking home with and getting to know other families. This leads to impromptu playdates/park trips etc and friendships between parents which are invaluable for helping each other out with ad-hoc childcare. Say your younger child is ill, a local friend can walk your older child to school with theirs. Also means that if your children do activities together outside school you can share lifts - we have a group of 4 other families living within about 300m of home who I have routinely shared lifts/walks to and from Brownies/Guides for years now.

When one of your DC does an after school club but the other doesn't you can fetch the first, go home and come back for the other instead of hanging around.

Depending on admission rules, if new housing developments appear in your school catchment area between applying for your first and subsequent children the younger ones might not get in if you live far away.

Affect on your own ability to work. It's hard enough juggling pickup/dropoff and all the numerous concerts, parents assemblies, meetings etc with a school half a mile from home, an hour round trip twice a day would more or less ensure you need a SAHP for the duration of the primary years. Which can be a long time.

The second school is too far away IMO.

I have worked in a 4 form entry school (960 pupils as we also had Nursery year). What happened was that each year group became a close knit little unit- almost like a village school in itself. This had pros and cons. On the plus side, each child was well known within their year group by their year group staff. Each year group put on a rich variety of creative activities which all could be involved with. On the downside, there was not really a sense of 'whole school community'. Year group staff did not necessarily know the children in other year groups (high staff turnover too). TBH the Head did not know all the children by name. Even the staff identified more with their year group unit than the school, so that sense of togetherness was rather lost.

However, in your position I would go for the local school because I don't think the negatives of a very large school outweigh the positives of a large school 6km away.

From what I have heard about the first school, from talking to other parents, the pupils of a class knows one another but remains alone. The classrooms do not intermingle in their own year or any other year.

In the second school, it is split into juniors 4-8) and then older kids 8+. Each junior is assigned a 'friend' f( 7 or 8 year old) for the first year who makes sure they are ok in the playground.

There aren't lunchtime clubs in either school. In the first school there are a couple of afterschool activities, namely football and ballet. The second school has a wider range but I gather not run to a high level. The first school had a bad reputation but it is improving. The second school has quite a good reputation but this stems from its reputation as very child orientated and belief that every child should have a voice. Of course as a PP said, there will be dominant voices and since speaking out is encouraged, I wonder if the quieter ones are left behind. On my visit, the children's self confidence was obvious but perhaps I got to speak to the more confident ones?

The distance to the second school is such that Imo you need a really compelling reason to go there over the first school; or alternatively a really compelling reason NOT to go to the first school.

None of the things you have said seem to meet either criteria.

I would imagine the first school also has some sort of settling in routine - you're just not aware of it. The actuality of "buddies" assigned in school is that they don't tend to last more than a week or so unless the children happen to become friends anyway.

And yes, you will most definitely have been "given" the most confident children to speak to when you visited!

So the general consensus is the first school? Does anyone who originally thought the second school was the best choice still think so?

I'm so torn - head v heart.

I agree with all the valid points re the distance. Are you a SAHP who is happy to sit in a car for 2 hours a day just to do school run. If you are 30mins one way, your DC live 30min in the opposite direction. Zero chance of an impromptu pop round for a play after school. The shared lifts and walks to school / activities is massively valid. I have had the situation where one DC was so sick that they couldn't leave the house really. I had at least 6 options of families within a couple of streets to take my other child. I've often picked up another child who lives close for a parents who is late home from work. The older children often go back to a friends after school for a play - which is easy as everyone lives with 0.5 miles radius.
Our school is similar to other huge schools where the only downside is that the DC know everyone in their year group but not everyone in the school - although they seem to know a huge amount of other kids !

Sorry that should say that your DC friends may live 30 min in the opposite direction. That also means they'd not see friends at local clubs either as much

I originally thought the second school. But the idea of your child being sat in a car for an hour a day, five hours a week, 20 hours a month is awful and a huge disadvantage. He should be running around in the local park not being strapped to a seat. Just think of how much fitter he will be walking to the local school. We commute to school but it's only a 5 minute drive or a 20 minute walk one way. To attend the second school you personally would need to dedicate two hours a day, 10 hours a week, 40 hours a month and quite a lot of cash to commute.

I was discussing this with a friend from school yesterday (both our youngest are year 6 and we both live within 1/2 mile of school). We agreed that when we had chosen it we had both felt that there would have had to be massive problems with it to have chosen one a car journey away instead. It hasn't been perfect for either of our DCs but it really has been good enough, they are happy and the benefits of it being so close have been massive. Not just those I listed earlier but also being part of a close-knit local community - the DCs are out and about without us now and it is great that there are lots of adults (other parents and members of school staff that live locally) who know them well and will keep an eye out for them when they see them in the street, park etc).

Thanks all. I should have said perhaps that I don't live in a 'community. We are very much in surburbia where everyone commutes. The area is classed as disadvantaged, although there are plenty of average people who bought here because it is affordable too, but there are many people that I am certain I would not be happy for my children to go to their houses or for some of them to come to ours. I don't' know how I would police that as obviously I wouldn't know from the children themselves. That sounds incredibly snobbish and of course children are children but if you lived in the area (high crime), you would understand why I am saying this.

Are the small community attendees from a low crime area?

There will be some kind of community around both schools and if you are doing drop off/pick ups/playing in the park after school, you might get to know a good number of the parents in your child's class.

The children are often too exhausted for play dates in reception and year one anyway.

I would consider the more distant school only if you could travel at quieter times so it's quicker.

The level of clubs wouldn't interest me as there's only so much a small child can do at a young age and the club would be more about creating good foundations (not just subject foundations) and having good fun and good quality childcare and being with specific friends. Clubs are usually free or low cost anyway, it's not like employing a one to one tutor or an adult/secondary/older junior aged club.

Also my experience of the named older playground friend system is that sometimes it works well fir the first week or 9 months but often it doesn't. Putting two strangers together might or might not click and often the reception aged children grow in confidence quickly anyway and don't need hand holding. I would ask what systems are in plane in the seperate infants/junior school to hoover up any children who feel a bit isolated or out of sync.

When is the quicker time to travel? Is there a park/morning club close by?

I'd also ask the school how children's voices are heard in the other school?

There will quiet and confident kids in both.

Also I think you need to do a second visit.

Also go chat to the heads. Make an appointment and explain you're looking at two schools. Ask lots of questions. Getting a flavour for the leadership is helpful. It's possible the school uses certain kids for tours.

OP I know several people who live in 'deprived areas'. The issues you perceive are far more perception that reality. If you fear your DC bring exposed to chaotic households, that doesn't happen much as the households you fear would probably not be the ones that invite kids over to play. The vast majority of families will be perfectly normal, honest parents doing teh best for their kids in their own way. You may not realise that you are very much in a community as that becomes far more evident when your DC go to school. You find that you'll meet tons of local people that you have been co existing with for months without knowing that you had anything in common. You live there for the same reasons that most of them do - you can't afford any where 'posher' and probably nor can they. You all have young children. By spending 2 hours a day in the car and you children travelling far to school, you would loose out hugely by not engaging in your local community and the huge benefits that come with that.

Seriously? Is this deprived surburban gang controlled Detroit or just a regular UK city suburb?

I cannot imagine anything but the local school, a commute is a really bad idea unless there are really significant reasons, the local kids being from the "deprived" suburb would not be one!

I'd go for the first and not worry too much about the whole teams/winning thing at all. Ime that's not a big deal at primary level. Maybe more with private schools, but ime it's more about health and fitness and enjoying exercise than competition at primary level. A wise headmaster once told me his aims for pupils were to be safe, happy and to learn something, in that order.

I'm not perceiving it is a deprived area. Many people who live here were born here. It is regularly on the news for murders/crime and as an example of high unemployment and social issues. Delivery drivers won't go to many parts of it. I can't say more as it will be outing if it isn't already.

We live in a 'newer' part which is okay although within walking distance from the older part. The trouble here is nearly always caused by people renting who move around a lot. I would not walk around here in my own on a Winter night. There is a park nearby which is quite nice. When I came here, I rang the police to ask if it was safe. They advised me not to go in there by myself.

The second school down the road is in one of the most affluent places in the country. It is quite ironic really.

This is actually why you are struggling to make a decision, isn't it? You are not keen on some neighbour's children and you want your DC to mingle with the posher ones. So just do it. I did this journey to a prep school and it's doable! Easily doable. So take your pick regarding the type of family you wish to mix with and stop making out you are concerned about walking to school. You are obviously too scared to even go into the park! Getting in the car makes much more sense!

Yes that is the internal struggle I think. This thread has made me realise that. I do not want my children to be judged by the company they keep or get in with the wrong crowd as they get older although I would prefer to go to the local school as it is far more convenient.

Ironically, of course, if you do go for second school then parents there may judge you as coming from the not-so-nice area ....