Does your child's primary school have a 4.5 day week?

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www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jun/28/leicestershire-school-plans-four-and-a-half-day-teaching-week

Apparently this is becoming increasingly likely because of funding cuts and some schools already operate this.

I can't quite work out where the saving is - are the teachers forced to change their contracts and take a salary cut?
Could they achieve the same by adding days onto school holidays or does it have to be weekly?

What do the kids lose out on - does it translate into shorter lunch breaks etc during the week?
Dd's only in reception and seems to spend most of her week playing anyway but by Y5/6 presumably that's two hours less learning?

If anyone uses a school that moved to a 4.5 day week I'd be really interested in how it works and what the savings translated to - eg were teachers able to be kept on that would otherwise have had to leave?

A LA near us is looking at this - though it would be 9 slightly longer days a fortnight.

The idea is that they can make savings by not having the school open every day, eg making cuts to ancillary staffing such as cleaners, office staff etc as well as not turning on the heating or flushing as many toilets. The total teaching time would be the same.

I think it's a terrible indictment of the cuts.

I think the theory with this school is that teachers do their planning on the closed Friday afternoon so they don't have to pay for other staff to cover the teacher's usual absence to do planning with music or art etc.

We're in the same county so I'm hoping it doesn't spread as a good idea. I can see why they'd have to do it but so many parents would struggle to cover an additional 2 hours' childcare.

I think the saving intention is on support staff salaries. As currently when teachers take PPA a cover assistant/teacher minds the class. All PPA time would be moved to a Fri afternoon so these staff would not be required to do this any longer.

This school is quite near me and there is absolute uproar from working parents. A friend has two kids there, the school has said they will provide free enrichment activites for certain children on Fri afternoons but this is limited to 200 places max. Obviously there are more than that at the school!

Yes, I'm in Scotland and our local authority does this with both primary and secondary schools, as do the neighbouring ones.
The only issue tends to be that no part time workers are keen to work a Friday.
DSs start school at 8.55 and finish at 3.20, 12.30 on a Friday.

Normal in Edinburgh schools for as far back as I can remember, although I think they get the same teaching hours just spread differently. It is quite nice as lots of sports clubs run on the Friday afternoon and it really makes a weekend away feel like a break when you can leave at 12 on Friday. The trickle down effects (I've heard this from people who have lived all over) is that there is a lot more flexi working/ part time in the city as taking Friday off is so normal and about 1/3 picking up at my DDs school are dads, so normal not just falling on women's careers.

If it is being forced by cuts, then that is different but as a model it isn't all bad.

From discussions with a local head teacher the government is encouraging schools to be flexible with how they deliver the teaching in order to deal with funding and recruitment issues.

I know of a secondary school adding a week extra holiday and extending the school day by an hour one day a week over the part of the year with lighter evenings. The extra week closed will save those heating/lighting/cleaning etc costs and make the school more attractive to teachers because they can go on a normally term time so cheaper holiday. There is less of a childcare problem for secondary school children except that some parents use their older children as the childcare for their younger children after school.

This isn't a new thing - Edinburgh schools have been shutting at lunchtime on Friday since I was at school around 30 years ago. It was great! We did about 40 minutes longer Monday - Thursday to make up the time on Friday afternoon. In-service (inset) days didn't happen, instead the teachers would stay on a Friday afternoon and do their CPD time in 3 hour chunks.

Used to love it as a student, we had friday afternoons free every week and if we were going away for the weekend as a family it really made it worthwhile as we could leave at 12.30 and be wherever we were going by late afternoon.

Ds doesn't but we live pretty close to Edinburgh who do (as mentioned above) i have always thought it was a great idea (in general not for budget cuts) I always wanted our authority to copy Edinburgh.

Thanks all - interesting.

Dd's school runs after school clubs till 5.45pm in the school everyday - wonder how that would work? They'd still need to open the school if they ran the clubs so wouldn't have any savings there. So I guess the saving would be not needing the support staff for 2 hours.

What worries me is that 2 hours can be lost from each school week with no detriment to the children. Or is a proportion of the school week essentially free/play time anyway (eg when support staff are in charge is there no teaching/learning?) so it just cuts into that?

Our school finishes at 1:30 on fridays and so do a lot of school in our town.

When we first moved here I asked one of the schools why and their explaination was this:

Their teachers were suffering from a heavy workload, and felt as if they spent all weekend doing school prep, returning to school tired on Monday morning. In order to find a better work/life balance, they shortened Fridays and spread the extra 2 hours over the rest of the week. That way a large chunk of marking and prep could be done at school, thuse allowing teachers more of a weekend.

It is the only explanation I have ever heard, so no idea if it is correct.

The school hours are the same over the week. We beging at 8:40 and finish at 3:20, not sure about lunch time.

I cannot see how it saves money as the teachers and TAs work the same hours over the week.

After school clubs etc are not as expensive to run as classes, as they are either paid for by participants, or run by TAs and subsidises by school

I have mixed feelings about it. But overall I like the relaxed start to thte weekend

The primary schools round here tend to employ members of support staff (usually cover supervisors) who cover PPA as part of their role every week. So there are a few members of staff employed to cover over the school. They are paid around 15k pa.

The after school clubs tend to use space on the premises but are not run by school staff but instead outside individuals who come in. So the school would not make any money this way I don't think.

Not seen the figures yet but overall I think it would be cost neutral as even if they can get rid of some support staff they will still have to have the school building open as normal and then provide care for the children with working parents.

If dd's school did this I would be livid. Although I'm a governer and have heard no plans at all so I hope they won't.

Our school does not but at one stage we where v close to making a move to London

We looked at several primary schools and they all finished midday on Friday this may have been specific to the borough or area we where looking at so I anticipate lots of London mums saying this is not the case for them!

they will still have to have the school building open as normal and then provide care for the children with working parents.

I am not sure what you mean by this.
Our school shuts at 1:30 on Friday.
it is up to parents to find childminder etc to collect. The school does not remain open for kids with working parents.

As the teachers still work the same hours over the week, they still get PP time etc during the week. The Friday afternoon time is their own time, like a weekend. The school cannot force them to stay on site, attend extra meetings or do their TD days on friday afternoon.
Just shifting the hours round like this does not save any money at all, as everyone still works the same hours.

I assume therefore that the plans being proposed are not the same as this.

Friday after school club woudl then be from 1:30-5:45, paind for by parents I assume?

weebarra that is interesting and I am a wee bit jealous. Your school day is 25 minutes longer than our standard 9-3 so over the piece no change to time in school but a free afternoon on a Friday - I am also in Scotland.

The school has proposed that the reason for the early closure is so all PPA is moved to a Fri afternoon so they no longer need this covered by support staff Mon-Thurs.

The school has offered to provide activities for certain children to do in the school building to do until 3.20pm (the existing finishing time) but this will be capped at a max 200 students.

So no, the school won't be closed after lunch on a Friday.

Parents are already charged for the the asc at dd's schools - none are free. The majority are run by school staff - only gymnastics, ballet and football use outside providers (and they are charged by the school for use of the school premises).

So I guess the lost income (assuming the school closed entirely at 1.30) would need to be offset against any savings.

The asc already running at this school starts after 3.20 andyes you have to pay for it.

Reading any of the articles in the UK press today that have picked up this story will explain it to you.

Leather - I did read the article but still couldn't fully understand (probably my ignorance) - does it mean some TAs will be made redundant as a consequence (as less support staff are needed)?

Yes I think so. I know it is the fail but suprisingly the DM article explains it a bit better.

The reason that people are so pissed off is that this is not the standard round here and never has been. No schools use this model.

It may be common in Scotland but this is the first in the area to propose and they want to start it after Oct half term.

I'm in Scotland too, and all of the LA's near us have done this for years. Our LA changed over 2 years ago. We now have a 845 - 3.25 day Mon-Thurs and 8.45 - 1.20 on Friday. Although all of the schools run slightly different times depending on their transport situation etc.

It works fine, there were rumblings in the beginning, but it is fine now we are all used to it.

I'd quite like this. It wouldn't cause me any child care issues so I'd be happy with it. My children always seem to be shattered by Friday so finishing a bit early would probably be good for them. I wouldn't want them having any less learning/teacher time though. Standard hours are 8.45am - 3.30pm here, 5 days a week.

Mine does this - finishes 12.15 on a Friday. The school afterschool club collects form lessons and they have activities in the gym hall until 5.30. The children even get a packed lunch handed out as they leave school in place of their school dinner.

It's fine for me - I work Fridays so DS going to afterschool club at 12.15 rather than 3.15 makes no odds.

There are many schools near us who did this. We have a slightly longer day, 8.30 -3.30 and finish at about 1 on a friday. It's lovely, it's when everyone has playdates and it makes a nice start to the weekend but it's a bit of a pain if you work on a friday.

I think it, or a 9-day fortnight, sounds great. I am a SAHM though so it wouldn't cause us any childcare issues - appreciate it'd need careful planning and provision of quality childcare if it ever rolled out. I definitely think it would be better for children in infants (Reception through to Year 2) as in my experience they all look shattered by Friday. Sometimes 2 days to recover just isn't enough. PPA cover and CPD could be done on Friday afternoons and maybe even free up the teachers' weekends a little more?

Another benefit could be it might reduce term time holidays and unauthorised absences (especially the 9 day fortnight ) as families would get lots of long weekends to take advantage of family time, cheaper prices too if not every school was doing it.