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Does the reading stage/level really matter?

65 replies

SleepWhatSleep1 · 23/06/2017 22:57

DD(yr1) is coming home with orange level books. At home she reads anything and everything and her comprehension is excellent. She finds her school reading books a bit of a chore and just something to be got through until she gets back to her "real" books (which I occasionally make her read a section aloud just to check).
We visit our local library each week and also have probably too many books at home she has access to.

So does her reading book level matter as long as she's reading?

OP posts:
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sirfredfredgeorge · 24/06/2017 16:43

No just /ʌ/ although, given it's more of a sound of disgust anyway than a word, if I was reading it aloud as a piece of performance I may well exaggerate it even more.

In Hugh and Pugh It's just /u/ though isn't it?

mrz · 24/06/2017 16:53

No it's /j/ /uː/

brilliotic · 24/06/2017 17:08

Do book levels matter? Or rather, does 'being on the wrong level' matter. Lots of replies have been of the 'probably she's not on the wrong level anyway, trust the teacher to know what they're doing' type. But let's just assume that she (or any child) IS actually on the wrong level. (Which, in my experience, does indeed happen; there are various reasons why a school/teacher won't change a child's reading level and they don't all have anything at all to do with the child's reading ability (incl comprehension)).

So does it matter? In what way could it matter? I guess it could matter in that a) the child learns to associate 'reading' with 'boring, a chore, unenjoyable' or even (if books too hard/not-yet-decodable) 'hard, only for the bright children, not for me'. I suppose as a parent you'd be best placed to judge if it matters in this way. If you're finding that it is indeed negatively affecting your child in this way, then often simply providing your own reading material at home, and spending less time with the wrong-level school books, will help to solve the problem. It would matter more for a child lacking that kind of support from home.

Or it could matter in that b) an opportunity is lost to learn/to stretch the child. Again this can often be addressed by providing your own books and spending less time on the school books. Especially if a child reads a lot, then not every reading time must be stretching/challenging, it's great to have 'easy' reads in the mix too.

The only reason for being on the wrong level that would really concern me, would be if c) it was an expression of the teacher not caring about, and/or not being aware of my child's ability. E.g. my DS' teacher in Y1 heard him read once (and a TA once); in Y2 he was heard reading once overall. They knew he could read well, from everyday classroom interactions; but not really just HOW well. I think that once the teacher (at our school) feels the child has reached the level they 'ought' to (end of year expectations), they don't worry about further stretching them or helping them develop further anymore; especially if they feel the child is being well supported at home. That may cause the child's ability to be underestimated, and thus the child is often set 'boring' work at school, which is much worse than having to quickly get through a boring easy book at home before moving on to something interesting. It might also cause the teacher assessment of the child to be wrong, which generally shouldn't matter very much but sadly can matter if it then means that the child is not pushed enough/pushed too hard in later years, for statistics reasons.

So yeah in our case I feel that being on the wrong reading book level matters insofar as it is an expression of the teacher IN GENERAL not setting appropriate-level work and challenge for DS. The books themselves are not such an issue, we can address that at home; but it IS a problem that before turning 7 DS has learned that school is mostly boring and easy, and that he doesn't have to stop and think about anything.

Again, only you can know if your child being on the wrong book level is just that, and something that can be addressed at home; or if it is an indication of more systematic problems at school. I.e. do they systematically underestimate your DD's academic abilities because of her social difficulties? Do you feel it affects her experience of school? Her confidence? Her attitude towards school? Is she being appropriately challenged/supported in other areas of her learning?

catkind · 25/06/2017 02:25

How do you split ugh in Hugh into two graphemes mrz? In my accent it's the same sound as ue in cue and ew in pew. Diphthong.

catkind · 25/06/2017 02:26

Good post brilliotic. Food for thought.

mrz · 25/06/2017 05:13

"They knew he could read well, from everyday classroom interactions; but not really just HOW well. " so your son's school never assessed reading?

mrz · 25/06/2017 05:15

The sounds represented by the ue in cue and the ew in pew /j/ /uː/ (yoo)

mrz · 25/06/2017 05:24

(I am assuming that you don't say poo for pew )

user789653241 · 25/06/2017 07:29

Sounds like my ds is similar, OP.
He had excellent decoding skill but crap inference.( I assume he is on the spectrum, though not diagnosed.)
His overall comprehension was not too bad, he can retell the story perfectly(great memory) and can answer the question if you can find it in text. But he reads the text literally and couldn't read between the lines.
For improving decoding skills you can just read any books from home. But to work on inference, shorter books maybe easier for you to help her with specific questions targeting her weakness.
You say your dd's comprehension is excellent, but says no inference skills. Comprehension cannot be excellent without inference in later years, imo .
We have been working on my ds's comprehension over 3+ years now, and it does improve.
So, I do think you should not worry about her actual reading book level so much, since she can read well, but concentrate on working on where she needed. But that's just my opinion, after gone through a lot of work with my ds.

Vintagegoth · 25/06/2017 07:38

A friend with a son in YR 1 who is probably on the autistic spectrum (but not diagnosed) was told by his school that they would not put him up a book band until he understood context and could explain the story. He could read beast quest books independently at home, but could not explain why Biff, Chip and Kipper were sad etc. Stupid system. Carry on encouraging your daughter with reading at home with a range of books.

catkind · 25/06/2017 07:44

No, i agree not oo. But ew and ue are taught as a single phoneme and a single grapheme, not two. They are at DC school anyway. If you teach ew/ugh/ue as not being a single grapheme, how do you split them into two?

user789653241 · 25/06/2017 07:51

For vocabulary, my ds uses electronic dictionary. It's great. Easy to look up, has thesaurus as well, so if he doesn't get meaning of word instantly from dictionary, he can use thesaurus to look up(just press thesaurus button, so no hustle) similar meaning word to get it. Also he makes his own words book, when he encountered new interesting word, he will write in down on a small note book as his reference. (I think it was inspired by mrz long time ago, about "big word book" or whatever it was, and we carried on.)

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 25/06/2017 07:53

Trouble with that is that she doesn't get inference OUT of books - due to her (probable) autism. She doesn't get sarcasm, non direct phrases or hints either. Or have any idea why someone might think something - but that's nothing to do with her reading ability

In terms of school assessment that is reading ability. I've just had an autistic Y2 pupil who could easily read the Telegraph judged at 'pre-key stage' (so not ready for Y1 curriculum) because his basic inference skills are not consistent enough to even secure 'working towards' ARE for SATs. Made not a jot of difference that he has a diagnosed disability in that particular area.

I expect the Teacher is keeping her on more basic books while they work on her inference.

mrz · 25/06/2017 07:55

The ue in cue is different to the ue in true as the ew in pew is different to the ew in flew

catkind · 25/06/2017 08:09

Agreed mrz. But still taught as a single phoneme. Otherwise how do you split it?

catkind · 25/06/2017 08:14

Or single grapheme anyway, I tend to hear diphthongs as 2 sounds anyway.

mrz · 25/06/2017 08:16

Originally the spelling ugh represented the same sounds we now represent by the spelling x in exit /k//s/ it's one of those anomalies found in English names.

mrz · 25/06/2017 08:18

We seem to be moving away from phonics into linguistics

SleepWhatSleep1 · 25/06/2017 08:19

Thanks for the really helpful responses. When I said comprehension I meant understands what the words mean and can explain what a sentence means, can retell the story. But she can only do this on literal phrases. Things like "raining cats and dogs" need explaining even if she's encountered them before she needs reminding of the "silly real world" meaning.
She has her own dictionary and uses it. She also reads thesaurus for fun sometimes Confused.
It does sound like she is being held back because of her specific autism related difficulties which seems a bit unfair to me. Her father aged 40 still struggles with non literal phrases sometimes - does that mean theoretically he should still be on orange level despite being a master's level educated engineer?! Confused

OP posts:
SleepWhatSleep1 · 25/06/2017 08:23

How on earth can I support her in this when it's part of who she is? She's already noticed that many other children are on higher bands and getting a bit disheartened at her "simple" books (her words not mine). She likes books with new words - likes collecting words Grin

OP posts:
catkind · 25/06/2017 08:23

Sorry don't understand. If ugh in Hugh isn't a grapheme how do you split it into two graphemes? Do you not teach x as a grapheme either? What do you call it then? (I thought for a moment you were saying Hugh used to be called Hx!)

user789653241 · 25/06/2017 08:33

Sorry, I only wanted help, but seems like you took offence to my post.
Good luck.

SatsukiKusakabe · 25/06/2017 08:34

My ds is Yr 1 on orange books. He is reading short chapter books at home and seems to have progressed beyond his school readers so in a similar situation. I see the book bands as a "school" thing that he has to work through so they can be sure he has a good grounding in the skills they need to see and that this may be a slower process but will ultimately underpin his wider reading so it doesn't bother me that there appears to be a disparity. The way I see it my main job is to teach him the pleasure of reading and to enjoy books with him and allow him to stretch himself by reading books with a more complex vocabulary. I let the school do their job and so far it seems to be going nicely.

Also the school books only take minutes and are fairly basic, but we still have a bit of a laugh over the storylines and he likes to see the pictures and discuss them and he has learned things from the non fiction ones about insects, planes etc so whilst we have to squeeze them in they're not a waste of time. Also I find they help with his reading expression and understanding of punctuation because he's not raving through for the plot, he takes time to get a sentence 'right' and think about the character's intention etc

PenguinsAreAce · 25/06/2017 08:36

OP -I don't mean to sound ridiculous, but why is this bothering you? It sounds like her reading is going great. Why not just read the book school sends home, continue letting and encouraging her to read a wide range of interesting things at home, and think no further of it.

Sometimes I wonder if I am doing this whole parenting thing right. I just cannot understand how other people have enough time/headspace to worry about this sort of thing. Kid is max 7yrs old. Kid is reading well. Job done.

disclaimer, I have 4x DCs and work nearly full time, so possibly a bit too relaxed re schoolwork monitoring due to simply not having a second to dwell on it. Yes, some weeks my reception-age (youngest) child only reads at home three times. I have never had a clue what book band any of them are on and we are shit at practicing spellings.

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 25/06/2017 08:36

The way I approach it is to allow pupils to read more complex, interesting texts for 'free reading/ quiet reading' type sessions, but then work specifically on inference skills using short sections of text in more closely matched 'intervention' sessions. I can do this though, because I have a class of 6..

While we have a secure fit system for Teacher assessment at SATs (so they have to meet each and every criterion to be awarded a level) I just have to accept that some of my very bright pupils, with many useful reading skills and often superb ability when working with a non-fiction text, will not be judged to be meeting ARE.

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