How many non-teaching senior management roles in a one form entry school?

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Hi,

I'm not 100% happy with DCs primary school but it is what it is- Growth Mindset, learning Styles, wedded to the non-phonics mindset.

As I have do many niggly concerns about the school I'm not sure if the latest is reasonable. Maybe it's because I have little trust in the Senior Managment Team, but is having two and a half non teaching senior managers in a one form entry primary a lot, or is it normal?

I suppose my concern is with money being tight these individuals are taking up quite a bit of the school budget. They have all been teaching a while. The classroom teachers are being replaced by NQTs.

So, is this a normal and therefore a non-issue, or am I okay to add it to my internal list of gripes?

I would say that i a 1 form entry, 1 non-teacher - the head - is normal. Someone with a part-time timetable who is also the SENCo would also be normal. More than that would generally be more than the norm - I have only known 2 form entry and up to have a non-teaching deputy, and even that is not universal, with the deputy often e.g. covering PPA so in effect having a 35-50%+ timetable, just not a class.

The primary school my DS is at is 2 form entry and the head doesn't teach (although is covering this term nearly full time teaching) and dep head does 1/2 time.

2.5 non teaching senior managements in a 1 form entry sounds a lot.

If one of those is the Head, one the Senco and the half the deputy then it could be close to usual but the Sencos and Deputies in 1 form and sometimes 2 form entry schools I've taught in have taught at least 1/2 the week.

I'd say lots of NQTs and teachers with few years experience is fairly reflective at the moment.

At my dcs 1 form entry school, there is a non- teaching head, a teaching deputy and a part time non teaching senco. That seems normal for round here .

In my two form entry school there is a non teaching head and deputy and a part time teaching assistant head. I am the assistant head and will be teaching more next year due to budget cuts .

I think 2.5 non teaching SLT in a one form entry school is a lot.

Only our head doesn't teach full time. I'm SENCo, Safeguarding lead, Literacy co ordinator and Key Stage lead and have a full time teaching commitment. Deputy head has his own class

Thank you for your speedy responses.

Yes, head, Senco and deputy - at least I think that's their titles. There are a few other non classroom teachers such as the languages teacher and the PE teacher and the music teacher who I suppose do the cover?

Maybe it's not representative of other one form entry schools as they do train teachers too.

I do understand that NQTs are cheap and there is no reason why they aren't brilliant BUT it does rankle somewhat especially as the SATs years get the only experienced teachers.

So am I okay to add it to my niggles list whilst thinking the staff themselves are great ( misguided, but lovely) ?

I don't know any heads with a class these days so really that's only one non-teaching deputy and a part time Senco, yes? We have a 2.5 day Senco (who doesn't teach but only works part time) and now, a non teaching deputy. Our deputy also does some PPA cover plus has bucket loads of areas of responsibility (maths, literacy, assessment, pupil premium etc) as well. It doesn't sound that unusual tbh.

Gosh Mrz, are you in a school of 30 in a class?

Also maybe the non-teaching managers do teach, but just haven't taught my children so I don't know about it.

It varies we average 27 per year group (only 1.6 TAs)

In my DC's school the head doesn't teach and the deputy head teaches part time. The SENCO doesn't teach either - she's part time but I'm not sure how many hours.

To me this is a school with too many non-teaching staff at senior leadership team level. Would be fascinated to know how many staff they have in the office?
I am kind of guessing that you are in the London area because for definite if you were in my LA, which gets considerably less funding per child, the school would simply not be able to afford that number of non-teaching staff. The school I am chair of governors at, has 420 pupils and whilst we have a non-teaching head teacher, the deputy has a 50% teaching commitment and is also SENCO and we do not have any funding that would allow us to have 2.5FTE non-teaching staff plus the PE teacher plus the music teacher and language teacher.

Two FT office staff admissions , and yes, in London.

Yes, my feeling is its a bit top-heavy. The school are obviously concerned about the changes to school funding as it will adversely affect them. And our children of course, although if other schools manage ...

If the governors decide on the staff and the senior managers are the governors it all seems slightly corrupt. We have one or two governors who challenge but it's not enough.

Ds school is 1.5 form entry. The head is non teaching, the deputy covers PPA so is teaching each afternoon and the senco teaches in the mornings.

I suppose I'm a bit annoyed that the head keeps touching the parents for their "voluntary" financial contributions when maybe there are better ways to run things.

There is a big difference between non teaching and non class based.

The NQTs will need 1 day a week release (PPA and NQT time) for example and this may be covered by teachers/slt without class commitments.

Other factors may be the number of open CP cases and who is the DSL.

Yes, I do see that ormate , that there are costs to having NQTs other than their salaries.

My dc go to a three form entry Primary school with a head, two non teaching deputies and two assistant heads who have a class 2 or 3 days a week. They also have a full time non teaching SENCO.

The top three don't cover classes, there are cover teachers and the assistant heads are class based.