Walk time to primary vs outside space once there?

[Thisoneorthatone]

Advice needed please - it feels ridiculous to be asking for advice on something that should be so easy but it's driving me crazy.

School A: 15 minutes walk to school and uninspiring tarmac-ed outside playground space. Good Ofsted (EY is Outstanding). 3 form entry and it feels big (we're in London) and a bit "sink-or-swim".

School B: 23 minutes walk to school (possibly even a bit longer if an underpass is flooded) but school is a Forest school with a lovely grassy field. Requires Improvement Ofsted but good recent Sats results & will probably improve fast. 3 form entry but undersubscribed so currently smaller & feels more nurturing.

The distance is important because we don't have a car and won't get one anytime soon; I just have no idea how much walk is too much walk and I appreciate 23 minutes could potentially turn into 45 minutes with three small children. We have 3 children (4, 2 and 0) so a good few years of primary to come.

Both walks are reasonably nice, walk A feels even shorter than it is.

We have a place in school A but school B is undersubscribed & admissions assures us we could switch without fuss. I appreciate we're very lucky to have the choice!

Thank you for reading. Any experiences / advice would be greatly appreciated.

Are you in beckenham by any chance 😬

The forest school sounds like my ds's old school.

I would go for the school with more outdoor space. A walk is a walk. It's doing it in crappy weather which is the pain. But anything over ten minutes and it's not much different.

I'd get a scooter and buggy board to make life easier.

Next time it's pissing down, get everyone out and do the walk.

I warm more to B.

Could you try the walk, for a couple of days?
Bear in mind, once it's routine, it'll get quicker. And 'rules' about waiting at junctions or whatever will become 2nd nature.
But, if it's 23 mins one way, that's 4 x23 = 92 mins for you. ( where A would be 1hr a day).
Healthy, and can be good time for chats. I think best school would sway me.

I'd go for the outdoor space - you may not miss it so much in earlier years, but by mid/late primary my two DC are feeling cooped up and under-exercised at school and are missing the ability to do any kind of school sport that requires space. They have front & back tarmac playground which are nicely kept, but no grass and no space big enough to do anything that involves proper throwing, batting, large team games etc.

Keep littlies using buggy /board / scooter as long as possible - there are no medals for ditching the buggy early and dawdling (when you don't want to dawdle) is a killer imo.

I think you need to do a little more research.

One of my key requirements would be stable staffing. How many staff are due to leave this year? How experienced are the teachers?

How much time is actually spent outside on this grassy field? (And anyway, the kids at the school opposite me all seem to be having a whale of a time playing on the Tarmac playground)

Where do your neighbours kids go? The kids in my nieghbourhood all play together after school in the nearby park. Play dates don't need to be arranged because there's always somebody from school there to play with. Older kids walk home together and are in and out of each others houses as they live so close they can pop along the road alone.

Do you know any parents with kids at either school to ask their opinions?

I think you also need to give the walk a go , and not just once as that's a novel adventure. But get up and do it at 8:30 in the rain 2 days in a row!

I would ask for more details on how quickly school B is improving. Results don't tell you everything because the children may have very enthusiastic parents and not have made much progress to get good Sats results. Ask what the school is doing to improve, how they are sure this is having an effect and what your child can expect as they progress through the school with regard to the curriculum. Ask about the quality of teaching. Lots of RI schools are under pressure to improve so it may not be the cosy atmosphere you may want.

I walked this distance to school when I was young and it is a drag when it's wet! Do you have a park anywhere near? Children do not learn more by being outside.

It's a hard one. I agree with others who have suggested doing the walk several times in all weathers.
Is there a bus you could use?
Bear in mind that schools that are undersubscribed receive less funding, so it can become a bit of a vicious circle with schools not improving.

Is school a near a park or somewhere outside you can take kids to after school? My DD was at a school 20/25 mins walk and I only had one extra child in tow, had to push a double buggy bc it was just too far for them to walk. I HATED it. Now I have a 7 min walk to different school and love it. Made my life so much better. The school run was too long for the kids as well and they would whine and the little one would cry a lot in stroller. Would drive me nuts. If I could walk t myself in peace and quiet fine. But with two Whinging kids and a double buggy, no thanks! after school we spend 1-2 hours in the park so kids get plenty of exercise.

Is this for next year?

Those distances sound HUGE for London. Have you checked you have a realistic chance of being offered a place at both?

I'm sure lots of people will tell you their 4 year olds happily walked miles, but I don't drive and when mine were small it was a real struggle to get them to do the 15 minute walk to school, especially coming home when they were exhausted. And they hated it in bad weather.

What is your 4 year old like with walking?

While Ofsted isn't everything if the closer school has a better one, then I can't see the point in going further when you don't drive. Forest school sounds good, but not the be all and end all.

If one child wants to do after school clubs at any point it will def be easier at the closer school.

I went to a primary with 3 form entry and it was great, although it did have lovely outdoor space.

And yes, the 23 min will prob be more like 45 with young dc.

Is that 23mins at your pace or your 4 year olds? Does he/she have a balance bike or scooter? Are you planning to sahm throughout the primary years? Where do the neighbours kids go? Don't underestimate how useful it is to have other parents on the doorstep eg if you have 2 ill children but still need to get the oldest to school.

Could you ride bikes/get a christiana-style bike? Parents use them a lot around here (inner east London).

Doesn't help with the school choice, but does with the commute!

Closer will be easier when they are all there and one finishes at 315, one at 330 and one has after school club till 415! Not to mention Xmas play, parents evening and so on.

But where the neighbours go would be a big deal for me- it is great if they can play with friends after school.

Believeitornot Yes! 😉 did your DS like his old school?

We don't know any recent School B parents and parents I've met from School A tend to be ones who have moved their children elsewhere once they're out of EY or are looking to.

Peonies Yes 100% sure. We do have two closer schools but they have titchy catchments.

Those are walking times at my pace (if they're all in the double / buggy board and no one whinges so much we have to stop for ages). My DH could do the school run sometimes but there aren't any helpful buses for either school option.

Mamabear12 and Halcyondays that resonates and sounds like what I am afraid I know to be true really. I like School B and I'd love all that walking, but only by myself. And no, my 4year old is an appalling walker (and scooter), despite us walking everywhere! I do read the threads about small children walking miles and wonder what they feed them. It's just School B has such an amazing green outside learning field... Agh.

Thanks everyone - very helpful so far.

I find I usually end up going to the school a lot at all sorts of times...parents evenings, school concerts, sports days, summer fetes, Christmas fetes, celebration evenings, meet the teacher, phonics awareness, child safety, staggered starts for reception children, quiz evenings, PTA film nights. Your children may do the odd after school club so end up finishing at different times. You will curse the day you chose the one 23 minutes away and have no car.

Where my children are, infants have no field and juniors have a field. But they only get to go on the field for sports or in the summer. The infants are very happy with their playground. We go to the park after school.

To me, forest school sounds like lots of muddy shoes to clean.

Honestly I think the break and lunch times have been so reduced I am not sure a huge amount of outdoor space is required. I don't know about times in London ours get 15 mins for break (eat snack inside first) and 45 mins for lunch.

I would go to the closer school and come home via the park.

Does the school with little outside space have access to football pitch or use any local facilities?

That's a real trek without any other option of transport. I'd choose the closer school but then I hate the school run on the 2 days I do it!

The Primary School my dc went to had 2 big fields. You can count the number of days they get to 'play' on on your fingers, tbh. Grass takes a LONG time to dry out, and if it's not dry, gets horrendously muddy very quickly if you have 600+ dc playing on it for 1/2 hour when it's wet.

Also - as others have alluded to, 8 mins different walking time on your own at your pace is very different from that walk with your 3 dc. Then remember each journey means you are doing double that amount and suddenly you've added 1/2 hour on ever morning and every evening - even when you aren't feeling well, even when it is raining sideways, even when it is still dark..... and that's the extra time, not the whole journey.
Then, with 3 dc, once they get older, you'll find that one needs to be collected later on this night and another on that night, so you can end up doing the walk two extra times, after it starts to get dark.

It doesn't sound like a lot extra, but you'll not be thinking that in December.

Go for the closer and better school - it sounds like a no brainer to me. I can't imagine how miserable your baby would be in a pushchair for over an hour and a half every school day - by the time you've waited for them to come out, find their coat etc etc it could easily be 2 hours. Fine when they are sleeping a lot, less fine when they are a busy toddler/decide they are hungry or dirty their nappy just when you need to leave/are potty training. I found the school run with a baby one of the hardest things about having dc3 because you are so tied to school times. If the schools were equal I would recommend the closer one, but it sounds like the closer one is better anyway. You can make a concerted effort to spend time on the areas that you feel that school A is lacking at home or with extra curricular activities. If school A doesn't work out it sounds like it would be easy enough to move.

Not in London, but we had a similar choice between v close outstanding school in cramped premises that felt a bit stern and uncompromising, and RI further away but very friendly + amazing outside areas. We went for the further school. They're now "Good", having been inspected after we decided.

At the start of the school year it took forever to get DS home. By now, he's bigger, and can walk, run, shuffle, crawl home faster. So it does get better. OTOH we only have DS.

I am glad we chose the school we did - the reception kids spend lots of time outside, the other classes also have obviously well used outdoor areas that they use for teaching. There are regular activities on the school field after school. He's happy and well supported (and needs it).

OTOH, it's a long way. Agree with others - you need to do a couple of trial runs. 23 mins is judt manageable (IMO with just one child which might differ if I had two smaller), 45-60 and you'll lose the will to live.

I would also go for the closer one for the reasons other people have said, different finishing times. If one has an afterschool club for an hour it will be boring for the others to wait around. Sometimes if they have a school trip you would have to be in school earlier than 8.55 etc etc

What about the secondary? Is one more linked to the secondary of choice? This would be far more important than the walk IMO

A field is of no importance. Definitely not with making life harder.

Go with the closer and easier walk, you will appreciate it in cold wet winter weather.

I don't honestly thing that by the time you're walking at child pace that the difference between 15 and 23 minutes is that significant.