Missed primary application deadline - what now?

[emmamaw]

Hi
Bit of history - I have 3 children, DD1 (12) and DS (8) have both attended the same nursery and primary school. Their names were down for nursery shortly after birth, they had their early years nursery place plus some private wrap around care in the primary school. They then went up to primary school and DS is still there in year 4. DD2 (nearly 4) had her name down for nursery from birth. She was offered a nursery place but they couldn't accommodate the wrap around care days we needed (DH and I both work full time). We were forced to send her to a different nursery, but always assumed she would still go to the original primary school alongside her siblings.
Fast forward to two weeks ago, dropping DD2 off at the private nursery, room manager asks if we got our first choice? I was completely oblivious to the fact that we had missed primary application deadlines - it hadn't even been on our radar! When I dropped DS off at primary I asked the receptionist if I had missed it and she said she thought DD2 would have a place, then checked and said no she hadn't. She was as shocked as I was and said that the private nursery should have reminded me and the local authority should have sent me a letter. I phoned the education office and explained the situation. They said it wasn't their responsibility to write to every household with a 3 year old! They said the nursery should have informed me. They sent out a late application form but told me my preferred school was full. I filled out the application form and took it straight back by hand the next day.
On Friday I received a letter telling me DD2 has a place at the primary school in our street. This school has no afterschool club. It has just had its ofsted rating 'needs improvement' and less than 10% of its pupils are at the required standard of reading, writing or maths!
I am in total despair. We are going to appeal on the grounds of we need a school with afterschool care and her sibling attends there but I know my chances are slim.
My questions are: how was I supposed to know the deadline dates? (Obviously I need to take some responsibility for not applying but surely the local education or the school or the nursery should have alerted me?)
Any tips to maximise my chances at appeal?
And what do I do if I lose the appeal? The only option I can see at the moment is DH giving up his job - no one else could pick her up and mind her five days a week.
Totally pulling my hair out at the moment.

I'm afraid it is entirely up to you to make sure you apply on time. The deadlines will have been on the LA's website and may also have been advertised in the local press. As they have told you, the LA does not have to write to every household with a child coming up to school age. Many nurseries remind parents but they don't have to do so. I'm afraid the appeal panel won't award a place just because no-one told you the deadline for applications.

Most appeals for Reception places are infant class size cases. If yours is an ICS case you should only succeed if a mistake has been made which has deprived your child of a place or if the refusal to admit your child was unreasonable. For a late application it is very unlikely that either of those will apply. You can still try and you may strike it lucky but it is a long shot so you need to be realistic about your chances.

On a more positive note, the fact that you have applied late does not affect your position on the waiting list. As your child has a sibling at the school and it sounds like this school gives sibling priority you will be at or near the head of the waiting list so there is a reasonable chance you will get a place by September or shortly thereafter. Your child does not have to start at the allocated school in September. You can defer entry until later in the school year and keep your daughter in nursery in the hope that a place comes up at your preferred school if you haven't got in by September.

Get on the waiting list for all schools that are acceptable to you.

You won't win an appeal but you might get a waiting list place if you're lucky.

I'm a deadline misser if no one tells me so I get your horror. No advise but handholding x

Thank you to all of the posts with suggestions and positive tips for appealing etc. To the many posters who have asked the question 'Surely you realised you had to apply......' well we no, that's the whole point of my post. We thought she had already got her name down in the school and had a place secured. And in answer to 'surely you had to apply for your other children.....' well of course we must have. But as they attended the nursery attached to the primary school I can only assume the nursery alerted us to the need to apply. I think they must have even provided the forms as I have no memory of any official application process.

It's been a while since you could "put your name down"

Everyone has to apply the same way and through the LA and not the school directly.

You had the option of a form or via the internet but obviously no point discussing that now as won't make any difference.

I understand your frustration and this happened to a friend of mine who had two dc already at the primary school she wanted her dd to attend ( our dd's attended a separate nursery together)

I asked her had she received her confirmation and she looked blank, had totally forgot to fill in a form, massively lucky that one dc didn't take the place and her dd got it.

The class of 30 was full until around 6 months ago when one child moved house and school and a new little boy started last week so they are full again- year one.

Your best bet at this point is to keep checking your position on the waiting list, go and see the other school, if you refuse it then the council have fulfilled their duty to your dd as have found her a place and are not obliged to find another.

Very best of luck

My DD is older than your eldest and the applications process has been pretty much unchanged (apart from minor tweaks) since before she was born.

I'm afraid that the only people with responsibility for your DC's school applications are you and your DH. You didn't miss miss the application dates by a bit - you missed them by around 6 months and I simply don't blieve that someone who has already had 2 children go through the process didn't for one moment wonder to themselves last September "Oh, she'll be starting school this time next year. Mmm, I wonder if I need to do anything about that".

Surely you must have spoken to other parents in your DD's nursery? Everyone is talking about school places and open days etc. Pretty hard to get away from.

Fingers crossed you get a place, there can be a fair bit of movement and with sibling priority, you're in a good position.

To be fair with my first I knew all about it as everyone I knew with 3 year olds was talking about schools. Second time round I was paranoid Id forget to apply so I did it within a week as we were in effect guarenteed a place. We got a letter from the LA to tell us to log on and apply. ZERO other reminders. Never saw a poster or anything other than one brief letter

I applied for DD this year but I don't think I saw any posters or anything. I don't remember seeing them anyway. DD's nursery (private) never mentioned it and I never talk to any parents so it wouldn't have been discussed. I can easily see how someone in my area could miss the deadline.

No one else's responsibility really.

Where I live (London), there are no reminders for school applications, vaccinations etc so when you have a lot on your plate, it is a very easy mistake to make.

Don't beat yourself up about it. Despite being late, you still may get a decent chance with the sibling link.

I don't know why mumsnet seems to be so anti appeal as it was strongly encouraged by my local school during the visit.

When I went to visit schools, I was advised by a head teacher to put in an appeal if I did not get in and cite the strengths of the school as the reason for sending the child there eg music, maths etc.

"I don't know why mumsnet seems to be so anti appeal as it was strongly encouraged by my local school during the visit."

Not anti-appeal, but several of us sit on appeals panels, so we know that they are a long shot. For reception ICS appeals which this would most likely be, they are especially hard, as the grounds on which you can legally win are very limited. I think on average only about 5% of ICS appeals are successful. For an ICS appeal, "the strengths of the school as the reason for sending the child there eg music, maths etc." would be irrelevant. For a secondary appeal they are often key though.

Hopefully though OP won't have to appeal as as a sibling, her child should be pretty much on top of the waiting list and thus hopefully get a place that way pretty quickly.

Its been a long time (certainly in London) since you applied with the school its been an online system for ages and certainly where I am the local authority did not send us anything (either time). The speed of the internet is such I suspect they think most parents are aware and can google.

Yes the private nursery should have put a notice up but they could have done. Ultimately as harsh as it sounds you have to accept that it was not on your radar.

Appealing is unlikely to work, you will either move up the waiting list or you wont. They have given you a school close to where you live if ofstead reports worked everyone would appeal.

So down to what you can do - a childminder who can pick them up from school seems your best option (and is probably on a par with afterschool care). The school is in your street so finding one you can drop off and pick up at either side of dealing with the other children should not be a problem. Keep your daughter on the waiting list as move if a space comes up (although that may not turn into a after school place)

In my LA the quoted statistic for successful ICS appeals is 0.4%, IIRC. I think it is so low because my LA is very good at acknowledging genuine mistakes, so will settle a LA allocation mistake without going to appeal, which means that the cases going to appeal are mostly parents who think that they will be able to convince a panel that despite the ICS appeal rules, their child/their circumstances are so unique that the panel should overlook the law and admit them anyway. Sadly, it simply isn't allowed and if such a situation did arise, the LA would challenge it.

It is heartbreaking when you see some circumstances, such as a parent who doesn't drive, who will have two children at schools that are over 30 minutes apart by foot, starting at exactly the same time, with a route that involves busy A roads, no suitable bus route, and a baby in a pram to contend with also. In that situation, you know that by refusing the appeal, one child will be late every single morning, and the mother will be walking for at least 90 minutes both ends of the day in all weathers. But there is literally no room in the ICS appeal rules for compassion. It would be illegal to grant the appeal. So all you can do is refuse it. But in my LA, what normally happens is that the LA official has a quiet word with the parent and suggests a school that could take both children, so that although they can't have what they really want, they can avoid the worst scenario.

I wouldn't waste your time and energy on an appeal.

What is the admissions criteria for your preferred school? Eg do siblings out of catchment still get priory? I'm assuming you're out of catchment.

Find out where you are on the waiting list and how much movement there is generally. You might end up with a place by September. If not, you can decide whether it's worth keeping your DD in nursery slightly longer. There's always some movement in September when people don't take up places.

As an example, DS didn't get in. I think he was 6 on the list. Anyway, a child nearby left after the first week, this place was rejected by the next on the list and so on, until by early October it was offered to DS. Each person gets two weeks to decide on their offer, so it can take a while for spare places to work their way down.

Wow that people don't realise they have to apply for a school place by their third child 😂

No reminders of any sort from the LA here either, they expect parents to find that information out for themselves.
There were, however, posters up at DC's private nursery, libraries, post offices, GP surgery, and adverts in the local free paper. Plus threads and posts and chatter on mumsnet and Facebook and other parents.

I guess it's not much comfort, but at least you'll be guaranteed a place near the top of the waiting list, so that might work in your favour if even just a few children don't take the places offered.

No reminders here at all. Thankfully I remembered what I had done for my older children. With my elder 3 we were given a booklet and forms with info from the nursery. We have since moved area and this time around, absolutely nothing. You are not alone, two families at our nursery missed the deadline.

Apparently third/later children are a large proportion of the children who don't get school applications on time, so you aren't alone OP, especially if your child is young for their year.

Get on all the waiting lists you can and hope for a place soon.

It's mainly done online nowadays. I am shocked you weren't aware.

My friend works in school admissions and she ,says there are sectors of the population that, like the op, completely ignore the process. They turn up with their kids at some point in September at school!
They are usually areas where there are spaces because tend to be the less popular locations

DS's primary school put out great big banners along their fence. I'm surprised either the school in your street or the one your DC attends didn't have something. Or did they but you ignored it as you thought your DD already had a place and so you didn't have to apply?

You won't get in on appeal. I went through it, it's an entirely different process for primary school and you will only win if the LA mishandled your application, or made some other mistake. Get on the waiting list and start looking at other options.

It sucks, I've been there.

Absolutely ridiculous that you didn't know you had to apply for a school place for your third child! Are you and DH normally people who need hand holding to be organised? How irritating for those around you.

You can't appeal because you forgot to apply and have childcare issues. Both are entirely yours and DHs responsibility.

You'll need a childminder. Which will be much cheaper than one of you giving up work and much less melodramatic.

Why are you applying now if she's 3 yo?