Understanding and comparing SATS

[Ilovecrumpets]

Hello

I was just wondering if anyone could help me get a handle on what the SATS KS1 and 2 results from last year really show and what, if any weight, I should place on them?

I am currently thinking of moving DC who is in YR - this isn't really because of the school's teaching but because of out of school reasons.

School 1's recent SATS were just below bat average for reading and writing (48) but higher for pupils achieving higher (15) - this seems to be mainly driven by maths. Their reading progress score was -2 but writing and maths both positive at 2. School has a very high FSM, SEN and English as second language (80%).

School 2 scores above nat average at 68% but only 7% achieve higher. Their scores for progress are all negative (-0.5, -1.3, -1.2). Lower than average FSM, 1/3 English as second language.

I guess my question is does this actually mean anything or are we just talking tiny differences in reality? Is it an indicator that school 1 has a more challenging intake and therefore the teaching is actually probably achieving more (school 1 has also said their results were skewed partly by 2 children joining just before the tests)? Or as I said are we talking such little differences it doesn't really matter?

Both schools score higher than average on the happiness bit!

I'm a bit torn as to whether to move my DC so may be over focussing/obsessing on this a bit!

Last year was the first year of "new" style SATS.
The main thing the results will tell you is how well the school adapted.
Go for the school you like the best.

It sounds to me like school 2 may have quite a privileged intake leading to them getting good KS1 results without having to do much; or maybe they have strong KS1 teachers; or both. So quite a few of the 2016 Y6 kids may have had achieved L3 (in old money) back when they were in Y2.(You can check this by looking at the results grouped by 'high achievers/middle achievers/low achievers') In order for them to have positive progress scores, many of these L3 kids should have achieved 'mastered in greater depth' in KS2 SATS 2016, but clearly many didn't. Which may indicate less than ideal teaching, but may equally indicate that they were caught out by the new SATS format. It was quite hard to achieve 'greater depth', but still many of those L3 kids will have achieved 'passed', which explains the higher than average pass rate the school has.

When a school has a privileged intake and strong KS1 results, I think it's always worth considering that some of their KS2 results may be down to parental investment rather than 'the school'. Ambitious parents will often choose a school based on the school's results; then if it appears that their child is not doing as well as they'd like, they resort to tutoring. Especially in grammar school areas; or where there are grammar schools nearby. Once some kids are being tutored, other parents will cotton on and do the same. So even if the teaching is actually poor, the school will end up with overall good results. Leading to the next set of ambitious parents choosing this school for its results... (Especially valid in faith schools with 'hoops' to jump through to secure a place, and in areas where house prices are strongly affected by the nearby schools.)

One more thing to consider, I believe the experts have said that one of the three subjects (was it writing?) had inconsistent/unreliable results. Which would mean that any 'combined' results (e.g. % at greater depth in maths, reading AND writing) would equally be unreliable. So if studying the results, I'd focus on the results by subject, rather than the combined measure.

All that said, yes I think you are over-obsessing on results! The SATS results are, at best, a measure of the school; but all the 'averages' and percentages won't tell you how well YOUR child will learn at this school. (And anyway, teachers may well leave before your child gets to that year, and a school is only ever as good as itss teachers.) Your child may be the one high achieving kid in the low-average school, or equally the one low achieving kid in the high-achieving school. A school's great results may be largely down to their privileged intake with lots of external tutoring, or it may indicate great teaching, or it may indicate huge pressure piled on the children and teaching to the test, neglecting science and music and everything else; or conversely it may indicate that the school believes that happy, relaxed, interested children learn best and gets great results without any of the pressure and narrowing of the curriculum. There's no way to know by just looking at the results!
So from that perspective I'd focus more on things like homework policies, and how the schools prepare the kids for SATS.

And if both schools seem equal to you, take into consideration also which secondary schools they lead on to.

Thank you big that was sort of my hunch! School 2 definitely has a more priveledged intake, although not completely ( as there are some other state schools who scoop the kids who would otherwise be sent private!). I suppose part of my concern though is that school 1's intake has an exceptionally high level of absence (16%) and - this is a generalisation - but there doesn't appear to be a huge commitment by parents to the importance of education or school. There is also no out of school socialising at all ( so no birthday parties, friend meet ups which the school themselves recognise as an issue). I guess I'm struggling to assess how much that all makes a difference to my child enjoying school ( and his learning). I have real confidence in the teachers at school 1 and the way they teach/ethos of the school.

The higher level of absence for School 1 might be connected to the high numbers of children with EAL.

Many of the families at our school come from other parts of the world and tend to travel back to visit their relatives when the flights are cheapest, ie in term time. The families who come from furthest away are also likely to extend their visits there to make the trip worthwhile.

They also tend to be very involved with their children's education, so it may well be similar at School 1.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the SATs results, especially with the recent changes to the tests and curriculum. I would just go with whichever one you feel might suit your DC and your family.

That level of absence is not acceptable and is in fact dreadful. If parents and children do not socialise your child will be lonely and miss out on childhood treats such as parties. The level of parental engagement must be awful. Do you want to be in this sort of school
environment? It would make me run a mile!

School 2 does not seem to have great progress from KS1 to KS2 so I would ask how they are addressing that. They will have to! This school may give a better all round learning environment and a normal childhood if they can get KS2 progress nailed.

bojoro you are right the level of absence is very bad and the school has tried its utmost to make it better. As ferris identified some is indeed due to long term time holidays.

I can see from the outside I probably look a bit odd to be considering staying at school1 - and this is partly the sense check I was looking for! It's just the teachers there are so great, and really go above and beyond to step in and try and make the school a community. They have been so engaged with my son and really have got to know him. Also because of their intake perhaps they are always looking to understand why a child is acting out. You are always welcome to chat to teachers and the head mistress is very active and visible in the school - so there at drop off and pick up, around at break times. They were also very kind to me when one of my parents died and I was on my own. So I really feel great affection and loyalty to the school. I think I want to believe that is enough but my gut feeling is the lack of out of school socialising, engagement of parents and just generally not being part of the main school intake community is a problem and will increasingly become more of an issue as my DC gets older.

The school is addressing the poor attendence but I fear it is cultural and very hard to shift. However, there are schools that have a significant number of children from diverse backgrounds, but yours seems much worse regarding absence than others I know. A visible Head is clearly trying to address this and I have no doubt they are working behind the scenes with the most difficult to shift parents. In my day, if a child was absent for three weeks (not an illness) the LA rules were to take them off roll. When children are absent it disturbs their learning and everyone else's as well, not to mention sports teams, drama, seating arrangements in class, etc. The teachers must never know who is going to be in class!

I think you do have to think carefully about what your DS will need in the future. Children cannot always cope with being the odd one out culturally and not having day to day engagement with like minded friends can be problematic. Will he be on his own too much after school and at weekends? I am sure local clubs can help, but firm friends are usually made at school because children are with them for so much longer. Is he showing signs of wanting friends to come round yet and is he aware that other children have a social life with school friends? If not yet, he will be later on. I think you will feel eventually that he is missing trips to the cinema with friends, going to a sports match, going to a party treat etc.

I would also wonder if this school is going to struggle with attainment and progress if absence is so high. For it to be so bad, some children must be missing a vast amount of time and indeed it averages out to all children missing 1/8 of all their time in school. In other words just under 2 days absent every three weeks or 24 days a year - every child! Most school get upwards of 92% with a mixed intake and lots 95%.

I am not sure you have said how old he is, but as children get older, they do need friends. You already feel isolated within the parent body, so there is little opportunity for you to make friends and go for a coffee I suspect. Is this what you want for the forseeable future? I do understand loyalty to a school and great teachers are a big bonus. That does not mean to say the other school does not have similar staff and I think the needs of your DS would persuade me to move.

Thanks bojo that really is helpful.

He is currently in reception and there are a couple of other children who he does occasionally see out of school, but who are leaving at the end of the year. But yes even now he is bringing aware that his friends at other schools go to birthday parties etc. He is very sociable and quite extrovert. I also don't want him to be the odd one out.

I think I will have to move him for his sake, even though I hate giving up on the school. The level of absence is a long standing problem - and it is true even in my DS's class we never know how many children will be there in the morning! Also a big problem is serious lateness. TBH the results the teachers do achieve and their commitment is really amazing! Maybe I could consider if there are ways I could continue to support the school even if my DS moves. There are some lovely children there, who when they are in school are engaged, funny etc.

I think you have given it a go and it is just not the right fit for your child and this is quite sad.

Regarding help, would you consider being a Governor? Quite often schools with disengaged parents struggle for Governors. You can be co-opted for your skills if there is a vacancy. As you won't be a parent they need to try and recruit actual parents to be Governors but it is possible for you to be a parent Governor if they have failed to recruit from the parent body. There are also local authority governors.
You have made a good start by digging out the progress info! Often schools like this really do need Governors who can address the issues and help to move the school forward. What do you think? It is not an easy role but fulfilling when you see improvements!

Yes I was thinking of Governor. I have actually done that previously pre children for an inner city school somunderstand the involvement and commitment.

Many thanks again for your help.