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Original poster

'Using picture clues and context are great for developing comprehension'

305 replies

Sleeperandthespindle · 28/04/2017 17:07

This is the response I got to asking for decodable books from school for 4 year old in reception who is guessing from pictures when presented with Biff and Chip.

I don't agree. I can ignore the books sent home and give him others, I know, but he is clearly being taught to 'guess' in school.

The school are unlikely to change their mind, I realise, but older DC (in the same school) is struggling very greatly with literacy and the general approach seems unhelpful.

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mrz · 29/04/2017 06:10

Northern Stanislas Dehaene Reading in the Brain ...suggest you read it!

Also recommend Doug Lemov Reading at the Speed of Sight

The link is to research published 2017

mrz · 29/04/2017 06:13

Sounding Out Words is the Best Way to Teach Reading
NEUROSCIENCE NEWSS*

Summary: Learning to read by sounding out the words has a dramatic impact on the accuracy of comprehension and reading aloud, a new study reports

mrz · 29/04/2017 06:22

"Even good readers find that contextual guessing is accurate on only one occasion for every four or five times it is attempted." Stanovich

mrz · 29/04/2017 06:40

"If you don't have phonics, learning to read is like learning the telephone book. You can only learn so many words."

BoysRule · 29/04/2017 07:33

Thank you for the links mrz and I can see that this discussion must be incredibly frustrating for many of you.

However, I think you will have to accept that not all schools have chosen to teach reading through 100% phonics. Research comes and goes and there may well be research in a few years time that says the opposite. Our school had only one child not pass the Year 1 phonics screening last year, they read ORT books and where appropriate different strategies for teaching reading are used for certain children and for certain words.

Regardless of research which says that children learn to read better through 100% phonics teaching, it does not say that 100% of children learn better through 100% phonics teaching. Teaching is not about one size fits all - we teach countless methods in maths for adding and subtracting and children choose the method that works best for them. Our job is about adapting to each child's needs.

spanieleyes · 29/04/2017 07:35

I'm sure you could go on and on and on The problem is there seem to be some people who just don't listen! It's really quite simple. Teach Phonics to decode! Add a rich diet of books and stories to appreciate the beauty of the language, explicitly teach comprehension skills and you will have proficient, well rounded, comprehensive readers!

mrz · 29/04/2017 07:46

"However, I think you will have to accept that not all schools have chosen to teach reading through 100% phonics." I'm not sure that I should accept that state maintained schools are failing to follow the statutory National Curriculum

Just where does it mention teaching guessing strategies?

'Using picture clues and context are great for developing comprehension'
mrz · 29/04/2017 07:49

Maths analogy is a good one ...unless a child understands the meaning of the symbols we call numbers and their changing value in different positions within a numeral a child can't calculate regardless of your teaching methods.

mrz · 29/04/2017 08:37

"The paper finds that many who pledge allegiance to"balanced reading" continue to misunderstand reading development and to deliver"poorly conceived,ineffective reading instruction."

Feenie · 29/04/2017 08:38

What is wrong with a combined approach to learning to read?

It fails one in five children, Yoykoreturnrs. Luckily, your ds isn't one of them.

Feenie · 29/04/2017 08:40

Research comes and goes

I'm not sure you understand the meaning of research. And that's being kind!

mrz · 29/04/2017 08:42

" Luckily, your ds isn't one of them". Unfortunately too soon be sure

kesstrel · 29/04/2017 08:47

Research comes and goes

Not properly carried-out research, using well-designed methods.

The research supporting phonics goes back 50 years, and consists of hundreds of studies, and over that period of time it has all pointed in the same direction. More recently, further support has been added by studies using neuroscience.

In contrast, the multi-cueing approach of looking at pictures, using context clues, etc. was based on theoretical speculation in the 1970s and has never had any proper evidence to support it.

The problem is that the well-designed research I mentioned above was primarily carried out by research psychologists who specialise in reading research. The bunker mentality that prevails in universities between disciplines has unfortunately allowed education academics to ignore this research for years, in order to push their own ideas.

Arkadia · 29/04/2017 08:50

Mrz, I feel that many would say you are quite wrong there. It is too early to write a long message about it, but you will see that many state that the last thing a small child being introduced to numbers needs is place value.

Children understand instinctively quantities (even preschoolers can easily understand quantities well over 1000 and manipulate them). Subsequently they give the quantity a name (seven hundred and fifty two) and only lastly they associate that to a number (752).
If you approach arithmetic like that is is MUCH easier and MUCH more fun because you are not constrained to spending the first two years doing sums to 20 for the blasted big math. There are SO many more fun things you can do with quantities and numbers and you don't need to know about place value to enjoy them. That will come naturally later.
The school instead starts with the number, gives it a name and associate it to a quantity (which is the opposite way).
A fine example that I saw is that kids look at numbers as if they were Roman numerals i.e. for them a hundred is more like "C" than "100", or, if you like the number "100" is just like another one digit number. All the numbers are one digit numbers.
Dealing with quantities and not with numbers is the key.

So, for example, the number line ends up in the bin and it is replaced by a little tool with 20 keys that you use to show quantities (for small kids just starting) and within minutes that can show you that they can do (17-9) because that is knowledge they have within them.

I have not read anything in English about it because there is a wealth of material in my mother tongue, but I know this is an approach used in several countries and can find a bibliography if you like (but I need to wake up first). I have seen it exists, but never needed to look it up ;)

Feenie · 29/04/2017 08:56

However, I think you will have to accept that not all schools have chosen to teach reading through 100% phonics.

I'm with Mrz here - why should she accept the fact that some schools do not follow or, UN the case of this thread, even read, the statutory curriculum? Why should parents? It's embarrassing that there are parents on this thread who understand the curriculum better and are more knowledgeable about reading than some teachers.

kesstrel · 29/04/2017 09:00

Regardless of research which says that children learn to read better through 100% phonics teaching, it does not say that 100% of children learn better through 100% phonics teaching.

The children who are most vulnerable to reading failure are those identified as dyslexic. According to this meta-analysis of the research, the only method that has been shown to help such children is phonics.

www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0089900

Many dyslexic children who struggle to learn to read need considerably more practice in phonics than their peers. Mixing phonics with other methods for identifying words weakens their phonics word-attack skills because they end up getting much less phonics practice than they need, because they spend too much time trying other methods.

Arkadia · 29/04/2017 09:02

If phonics is the only method to be used, why don't we dispense with picture books full of visual cues?
My DD1 would read using the pictures to help her (this is what they were encouraged to do as well) and even some of the newer Beef and Chip say it in the blurb at the beginning of the book.
My DD2 gets an ORT booklet linked to the Biff and Chip she is reading with exercises to expand vocabulary, but that is done a lot through visual cues (look at the picture and find the object x-y-z).
DD1 at the start was encouraged to write phonetically without thinking much about spelling, but alas this has taught her that spelling doesn't matter and hasn't come out of this phase (atrocious spelling :( ) Even now I am not sure how much emphasis is put on spelling.

Is my school not 100% phonics? No idea as I have nothing to compare it to. What I do know that something must be done to address DD1 spelling quality (or lack thereof)

mrz · 29/04/2017 09:09

"If phonics is the only method to be used, why don't we dispense with picture books full of visual cues?" Because illustrations enhance the pleasure ...they aren't useful for accurate reading but they often tell a sub story alongside the text.

mrz · 29/04/2017 09:11

Children don't use pictures to read unless they've been taught it is a strategy they are intelligent enough to know we read the words not the pictures

kesstrel · 29/04/2017 09:11

Arkadia If you are in Scotland, I believe the English national curriculum doesn't apply there, so neither does the statutory requirement to teach only via phonics There is someone called Annie Glennie who blogs about various educational issues in Scotland, including the phonics issue, if you are interested.

www.thelearningzoo.co.uk/2016/04/24/education-scotland-and-the-mystery-of-the-shifty-document-swap/