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Original poster

'Using picture clues and context are great for developing comprehension'

305 replies

Sleeperandthespindle · 28/04/2017 17:07

This is the response I got to asking for decodable books from school for 4 year old in reception who is guessing from pictures when presented with Biff and Chip.

I don't agree. I can ignore the books sent home and give him others, I know, but he is clearly being taught to 'guess' in school.

The school are unlikely to change their mind, I realise, but older DC (in the same school) is struggling very greatly with literacy and the general approach seems unhelpful.

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user789653241 · 29/04/2017 19:14

Wow, if you think last years sats was incredibly easy for your dd, then there's nothing to worry about....

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:15

Irvine, paper 1 is designed to be, in the government's words 'low demand'. Paper 2 is not....

Arkadia · 29/04/2017 19:16

Fenice, I have looked at 2 for arithmetic and two for spelling and punctuation. My DD would have problems with some aspects of the punctuation, primarily because I don't think they know that verbs have tenses, or indeed what a verb is...
However, if that is part of the curriculum (which might not be up north) it hardly looks like ticket science after three years of school.
The arithmetic one should be OK except of the very last question (3/4 of 20), but we shall see... I need to print that off first.
In any case, the spelling test is VERY easy. Even if one does well, what does it actually mean?

Ellle · 29/04/2017 19:17

Genuine question (English is not my first language):
Why does the "e" change the sound of the vowel in those split digraphs, but not in the words "give", "have", "come", "love"?
What is the rule for the "e" or split digraphs, if there is one?

How do you teach it to your students mrz?

I'm curious about it, as I learned English as a foreign language and did not receive any type of phonics instruction myself, and also because DS2 is starting to read in English and when we come up with those words I want to know what to say to him if he asks why the sound in the vowel changes sometimes.

ginsparkles · 29/04/2017 19:19

This discussion has had me slightly concerned now. I was very happy with how my daughters school was teaching her reading but now you all have me a bit concerned.

They encourage them to look through the book first, to talk through what they think is happening, and then they go through the words in the book using phonics and blending. Does this mean they aren't doing it right? I feel she has a good comprehension of what she's reading, and is making progress with blending.

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:19

Arkadia, try the reading comprehension paper, and the reasoning paper in Maths, before judging overall difficulty, as well as looking at the criteria for marking writing (not a paper, but you will be able to find the guidance from the page i linked to)

The papers you have looked at are, in a way, a bit like being able to do just the manoevres in a driving test and then saying that you can drive...

Feenie · 29/04/2017 19:20

I assumed you meant the two reading papers, arkadia, given the thread subject!

mrz · 29/04/2017 19:21

"Why does the "e" change the sound of the vowel in those split digraphs, but not in the words "give", "have", "come", "love"?
What is the rule for the "e" or split digraphs, if there is one?" There isn't a rule they are simply different spellings

catkind · 29/04/2017 19:22

She then had a nice sulk that her beloved Reception teacher hadn't covered every single alternative in the English language yet!
Smile I handed DS one of those phonics international charts at that stage. Maybe not quite everything, but enough to keep him busy for some time!

Feenie · 29/04/2017 19:22

All souj ds fine, ginpractice - no guessing/sight words mentioned.

Arkadia · 29/04/2017 19:22

Besides, where I am from (phonetic language) children with 2 years of school under their belt would do the punctuation test in their sleep ;) The way sentences are constructed is one of the first things you are taught (it could even be Yr 1, i.e. 6 years... not sure).

Elle, foreigners abound here :D :D

Feenie · 29/04/2017 19:23

Sounds

ginsparkles · 29/04/2017 19:23

Thanks feenie. Think I was concerned because I know she uses the pictures to help her work out the words when she's stuck. Teacher says that's normal.

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:24

This is where to find exemplification of what a child's writing 'at the expected standard' looks like, along with (in each set) what the child must do to meet the standard.

mrz · 29/04/2017 19:24

I teach the alternative was that each sound can be represented (within the context of words) including split spellings

Arkadia · 29/04/2017 19:26

cant, not sure if I saw that.
I saw 2 for maths and 2 for spelling and punctuation. Is there more? I will look again later. Shame you need a ream of paper to print them all off... (the little I have manage to print was 2 pages in one :D ).

I have to say, I am far from being an SNP sympathizer, but I do wish they got on with the blasted standardized testing, so at least we would have a slightly better idea of where we were...

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:27

If your child's writing looks like the expected standard exemplification, and they do well in both reading tests (someone else will be able to tell you what the threshold mark was for 'expected'), then I would say that your child can read and write at an age expected level.

The SPAG, to be fair, is not relevant to the question of whether she can actually read and write, and won't be used this year.

Feenie · 29/04/2017 19:29

Think I was concerned because I know she uses the pictures to help her work out the words when she's stuck. Teacher says that's normal

I take it back, teacher is an idiot. Please discourage by our dd from doing that and encourage her to sound out the word and blend it instead.

Feenie · 29/04/2017 19:30

Your, lost a y Grin

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:33

Teacher assessment frameworks for all subjects are here

2016 papers for all subjects are available from here if you scroll down

Ellle · 29/04/2017 19:33

Thanks mrz, I understand now.

If the child uses phonics for spelling and tries writing the word with different variations using alternative spellings of the same phoneme, ultimately the decision of choosing the right one relies on having seen the word at least once and remembering it. Having a good visual memory is a great advantage for spelling then.

ginsparkles · 29/04/2017 19:35

Thanks Feenie. May discuss with her when I next see her. School is an outstanding school, and teacher is very respected and experienced, but i'll raise it with her and will focus on blending and phonics at home.

cantkeepawayforever · 29/04/2017 19:38

Raw score to scaled score here:

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/527252/Scaled_score_conversion_tables_FINALJC.pdf

So in SPAG, a raw score of 22 was required to be at the 'expected' level.

The marks from both papers must be added together to get the raw score, so e.g. arithmetic + reasoning for Maths; paper 1 + paper 2 for Reading.

user789653241 · 29/04/2017 19:41

Ellle, I think it is. Having good visual memory does help a lot.
I do often hear my ds saying, "No, it doesn't look right." when he is writing.Then he proceeds to check the spelling on the electronic dictionary.
Great phonic knowledge + great memory = great spelling, imo.