How information do I need to report this?

[Ruby2202]

Found out from a friend that one of her friends has used a fake address to get into a very good school in our city which is local to us.

Apparently friend of my friend lives in a deprived area of our city and asked a mutual friend who lives in catchment for the good school in a totally different area of the city if she could move in with her temporarily with her dc so she can put her address down for the admissions to get into this school. She was intending on moving in with her temporarily and then renting locally to the school.

However, when it came to it said friend hasn't let her move in and she still lives the other side of the city to this school but has got a place. Apparently she is looking to rent near the school by September as the commute would be big if she stayed where she is and she's always wanted to live in the area where the school is. As do many people as it's a lovely area and the school is one of the top schools for results in the country.

This is all the info I know. I am wondering if I should report this person? However, I don't even know her name or dcs name. I can't believe these things aren't checked and she'd get away with it! Guess they wouldn't be able to do much without the info?

I am unsure if I should report or not anyway. She's a single mum and i know is just trying to do the best she can for her dc like everyone is. But she wants to move to and send her dc to one of the best schools in the best areas in our city! Doesn't everyone? She obviously can't afford it and there are other good/outstanding schools in the city in less expensive areas. Her expectations are very high.

I know the system is very unfair as only the more wealthy can often afford to move to these areas to get their dc into this school but at the same time she is denying a place to someone else who might have really saved and worked hard to live in that area too and has gone through the system honestly. It's a very oversubscribed school.

I'd report it if I had enough information (which OP doesn't, she'd need names or addresses).

We lost out on a school place - school nearest our house - because it was oversubscribed. It was very upsetting at the time, and I'd have been furious if I'd learnt that other children who were less eligible for a place had got in because their parents had lied about their address.

I'm sure it's not nice at all for a child to have their school place removed because their parents were caught out in a lie. But I've got more sympathy for the child who should have been offered that school place, and who's lost out because of someone else's dishonesty. This isn't a victimlesss crime.

Plus, as tiggytape says, letting this sort of dishonesty go unchallenged leads to a system where rich people who can afford to throw away ££££ renting a tiny flat next to the school on top of their mortgage etc, can more easily push out poorer people.

Is this any different from a wealthy person buying (rather than renting) a home in an area with an excellent school?

Say it was taking them a while to find the right home, but they needed to apply for the school so they asked if they could move into their friend's (rather large) house in the meantime, to secure the place.

That didn't work out, but they kept the friend's home as their address as they're going to be buying a large, expensive house in that area soon anyway.

Does that make it any more palatable for you OP?

I always think its sad when so many people on here seem to think cheating the school system is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. Sad times.

Smellyboot- I agree. Why does it seem that cheating is ok just because she might be from a less advantaged background? She might not be though, I don't know.

Tiggy that is so spot on. In our area its the average nice rule abiding people in medium size houses or less who live just at the distance boundaries to the favourite local schools who miss out. They often think that will be fine as they are within e.g. 0.3-0.4 of the school and can walk there in 5-10mins. They think they are fine as they see loads of people in cars who they assume must live further away. They think they are fine as they got in the school nursery. They think they are fine as they know children in the actual school who live much further away. They know the admissions distance is small, but they are close....
Then BANG, no. Allocation day comes and then are devastated to find they get allocated a school twice the distance away. I've seen in every year

I agree with tiggy too. This thread just shows how many people believe cheating is ok and has no consequences to others. It is shamelessly elbowing another child out of their rightful place in a school. No-one would like to be the parent of the child elbowed out. Most parents on this thread seem to be condoning cheating and that is very sad. I hope all cheats are discovered and not allowed to take up the place in the school and it does not matter if they are rich or poor.

I don't think cheating is ok.
However, I disagree with OP on this particular case, since her knowledge is from her friend's words, about her friend's friend's friend, who she doesn't know anything about.

I don't agree with the cheating any more than I agree with someone seeing it as their god given right to get involved in someone's life in such a potentially detrimental way, when they know nothing about them - not even their name - and bases their moral authority on rumour and gossip.

It is shamelessly elbowing another child out of their rightful place in a school

What's shameful is that all schools aren't good or excellent schools so no child should be at a 'bad' school.

What's shameful is that parent shave to cheat to gain a decent education for their child

What's shameful is that rich support good schools buy affording the best house near the best schools so the lest fortunate never get the opportunity to attend a good school

And what's really shameful is that the OP is horrified that someone from a porter area not only had the cheek to lie but also gain a place

Any child in a pot school is a victim - not just one child who didn't gain a place

But not all schools in less affluent areas are poor in terms of educational standards. Some are excellent school, but some parents don't want their kids mixing with the kids in them.
Maybe we are lucky but in our area within a 3 mile radius there are tons of schools and none are that bad... just less desirable

Smellyboot- I totally agree and I think this is the case for this women. The schools in her area are fine.

Well even if it is based on gossip and speculation I think I should still report. As if this is true they will investigate and the parent can prove their address, it's proved to be a genuine application and the child keeps their place and all is well.

It's interesting as I hadn't even thought about those missing out who are right on the boundary of the catchment rather than the people lucky and wealthy enough to live very close to the school.

I am going to subtly ask my friends more questions.

but some parents don't want their kids mixing with the kids in them

That is pretty much how the OP feels - the wrong 'sort' of child.

There is a lot of that near us. Some ofsted outstanding schools which are vibrant and creative but have high pupil premium % and number of SEN children and not an intake more akin to a selective private school hahaha.
Makes them much less popular in certain camps. Its nothing to do with the ability of those schools to teach all children the national curriculum lol

Please report this person OP. My Dd missed out on a place. She started at her allocated school. Towards the end of the first term we got a place at the chosen school. They had found out about a fraudulent application and the child lost their place.

This cost my Dd with friendships, settling in etc. It also cost us financially as we had to buy a complete new set of uniform and pe kit.

The rules are there for everyone. I hate cheaters.

I am going to see if I can find out the ladies name and then probably will report.

Want to find out more details though, as if she is actually going to rent in the area and was genuine in being let down by her friend I suppose the lie wasn't really her fault (although she didn't tell admissions when her friend said they couldn't move in) I guess it's also a case of whether her new place is in the catchment anyway.

If her new rented place is in catchment then she will keep the place assuming it is a longer term rental and she is not moving back to her previous address. It is difficult as you do not know a great deal about her, but if you can find out the name of the child, that is enough for the Admissions Authority to investigate.

Regarding the desirability of schools, of course we all want goood schools and there are plenty of good schools in poorer areas. In London there are huge numbers of them.

It is shameful to cheat to "get even" with other people you think have more than you. I always find this a strange concept and it could justify a whole lot of illeagal activity. Regarding schools; no-one considered cheating and lying years ago because people had more self respect and were used to abiding by sensible rules. Now, it is dog eat dog and we are not a better nation for it. All of us want all schools to be excellent but cheating does not help with this.

We are well off but my DH (and me!) are highly qualified. We have worked, successfully for what we have. We were not handed it on a plate. It took years of study and success in business. Do we really want to live in a society that thinks no-one should have something better than they do? That is Communism actually: and look what happened to Communism!

Maybe look at the bigger picture OP. Perhaps a letter to your MP on the state of the education system would address the balance?

As someone who lives in a densely populated over-subscribed area, it annoys me that the affluent can buy homes on the doorstep of 'outstanding' schools, raising houseprices and rents and forcing the less-affluent out.

A one-woman vendetta on a single parent when you don't even have any facts? Nasty.

How many times! It's not a vendetta I ve never met the women but I will find out the dcs name and more info from my friend when I see her next week. It's the principle I suppose. We all want the best for our children but don't need to lie and cheat for it

You might be morally right op but the tone of your posts just comes across as mean spirited..
You are going to report her anyway so not really sure why you posted.

All sounds like a but of murkey gossip to me.
If you want to help people, volunteer at a charity.

Where i live you dont supply council tax bill because the la checks the database for who is registered for council tax in the first instance ( less chance of fraud) and comes back to you if there is an anomally)

I don't think it is any of your business to report a friend of a friend of a friend, OP, who is clearly so removed from you that you have no idea whether this is remotely true or a case of sour grapes. You could cause that little family one hell of a lot of unneccessary pain for absolutely nothing. If you must, ask your friend to ask someone further up the gossip chain and closer to the source to report if they are very sure that some fraud has taken place.

Even if it has though, I don't see it as particularly bad as the mum and child were wanting to live in the catchment area but hadn't managed to get sorted yet.

If you are determined to spend your clearly ample spare time fighting a moral crusade there are plenty of other more worthy causes.

Also to whoever posted this:

We are well off but my DH (and me!) are highly qualified. We have worked, successfully for what we have. We were not handed it on a plate. It took years of study and success in business. Do we really want to live in a society that thinks no-one should have something better than they do? That is Communism actually: and look what happened to Communism!

I see through all those years of study and hard work and not remotely any good fortune whatsoever you have entirely failed to reflect on what privileges you may have "handed to you on a plate" and are also ignorant about fairly basic political ideas. Are you actually Sarah Vine?

OP - if you can get the details that you need, I really think you should report this.

I work in one of the over subscribed primary schools in our city. As far as I know, the admissions team do masses of background research into the situation before even coming close to informing someone that they are suspected of having accepted a place fraudulently. The idea that "You could causing little family one hell of a lot of unneccessary pain for absolutely nothing" is laughable. Nothing woudld be done by the council until they were sure of fraud.

So you are interfering in a families life that has nothing to do with you, must be nice being so perfect.