Fabulous new numeracy method.........................

[marymoocow]

.....has been announced at dc primary school.
We had a numeracy evening last night and ahead of the review of the numeracy strategy (or whatever it is) our school has found this fab way of teaching it.
Yes you've guessed it. Good old fashioned column method like we used to do .
Bit annoyed as i have been arguing the fact for the last 2 years, and ds has really been struggling, but at least we can officially help him now.

So glad to hear it. Lets hope all school go that way. Would make life so much easier.

Hope so lexcat. Was a little annoyed with the teachers attitude last night though, as though they had just thought of it. They even tried to teach us how to do it lol, like we have forgotten! But hey, who am i to complain. Homework in our house will never be the same again

you mean they don't add numbers up by putting them in columns? What do they do then [confused emoticon]

You really don't want to know how they did it before.
Basically if you had a sum 57+33= then they had to add the tens first so 50+30=80, then add the units 7+3=10, then do 80+10=90.
That's not too bad, but the grid method that they used for multiplication took all day to do, with lots of scope for losing the answer somewhere along the way.
All in all it just wasn't good.

so, if you're adding 254, 133 and 96...

200+100=300
50+30+90=170
4+3+6=13
300+100=400
70+10=80
400+80+3=483 OK that's six steps

254
133
96

4+3+6=13 put down the 3 carry the 1

1+9+3+5=18 put down the 8 carry the 1

1+1+2=4

Answer 483 three steps

Madness! Who thought that up?

when I typed it, the columns were correctly aligned!

someone wise in the government i think. Just glad its all over for us (sorry i'll stop gloating now ), and hope that someone realises that it would be better for all if it were changed back.
It has already been recognised that standards nationally have fallen since the silly way was introduced which is why they are reviewing it.

Excellent - Hope we too will be allowed to let our DDs use this "new" method. Anyone have a link to the strategy review and what stage is at? (We have a maths workshop for parents next week at school Y1).

no sorry, will have a look later, but at least this will bump it up in case anyone else has an idea. Lets hope its good news with your numeracy evening too KathG

I'm utterly shocked that this new method was in place - what was wrong with the old one. Feel like I'm so out of touch, I had no idea.

nothing was wrong with the old one which is why they have gone back to it iyswim if it aint broke etc........

Hi there,

I have been told off by DS teacher for showing him the old partion method (the one we all were taught at school). DS understands this proper method more easily than this silly new umpteen steps method - can the teacher really enforce that I do not show DS the proper old fashion method of addition and subtraction? She was quite feirce with me when DS handed her some homework this morning ! Oh well....

I'm shocked at how narrow all your schools seem to be.

Our school (very ordinary primary) has taught 'newer' strategies for years now. But it has also showed children the 'old' ways too and encouraged them to choose the ones which suit them best.

Its because the government have set the strategy (as far as i understand) that they have to teach these new methods, which admittedly some children do understand. What they haven't taken into account is those children who haven't got a clue with it. My ds has lost 2 years of numeracy because of these new methods. At the end of last year (year 3) he was deemed to be below the national standard - for all other subjects he is of or above. Now half way through yr4, since i have shown him, and he has been using the old methods he is of standard and most importantly loves numeracy again. He has his confidence back because he does not see himself as failing.

Sorry alisonmc that didn't really answer your question. If i were you i would continue to show him that way if he really understands it. Its not worth the misery of a child not understanding things just because of a new-fangled method.
And yes i know i'm going to get loads of response from people saying it is marvelous, but for some children it just doesn't work.
Good luck with your fight. At the end of the day he is your son, and you should do what you think is best for him. And bear in mind that it is all being reviewed because it isn't working.

Think i'm on a crusade here

As a primary teacher I have to come on here and defend the method you're all slating.

The main reason for doing 32+46 as (30+40)+ (2+6) is to show them the value of each digit. This is really important to help them calculate mentally. It is also invaluable for those kids who struggle with numeracy. More able kids will happily learn with the column method but those with less understanding will simply learn 'how' to do it without understanding what they have done. So, in their mind they will add 2 & 6 then add 3 & 4 which may get them the correct answer but what they really need to know is that it isn't 3 & 4, it's 30 & 40. The numeracy strategy method which we've been using for the last few years has led to much better understanding though I agree, they do take ages to set out.

There have been a few threads on this, many of which seem to say that their children are actually finding this way confusing and when their parents show them the 'old' method not only do they 'get it' quickly, they can also do the sums more quickly. Sometimes this seems to be followed by the children being told off for using method. I can't understand this at all, if a child finds the 'old' method easier then they should be able to use this method, especially if ultimatly this is what they will be using. It sounds homemama if some kids are being held back by this not being taught earlier?

Thanks marymoocow. I shall continue to show DS the partioning method of addition and subtraction as I think it is a more simpler calculation. DS understands that each column is a Unit, Ten and Hundred, etc, rather than to painfully work out a string of numbers that have to be mentally worked out.

homemama - DS understands that 3+4 in the tens column is 7 lots of ten and that 2+7 in the hundreds column is 9 lots of 100. What I am trying to get him to understand is that there are more simpler and quicker way to work sums out - quite honestly he gets completely lost with a string of numbers and 9 times out of 10 gets the answer wrong by miles, due to the fact he has forgotten to pick up tens or hundreds, etc, whereas in the column format it is quite easy to see the numbers to be picked up and added to the column.

I understand that this method is the latest fad (along with many others)that the government have introduced, strangely these more complicated methods seem to coincide with the overall standards in numeracy at Primary level dropping dramatically over the past 10 years - I wonder why !

Back to basics I say !

It always amazes me how on these debates about numeracy, the parents can see the benefits of the old method, and see how it really does affect some children that cannot grasp the new way, and that there is always one primary teacher that feels they have to come on to defend it.
I have never said, as such, that there is anything wrong with this method. Its just that teachers seem to think that we are out to slate anything that's new. There just doesn't seem to be anything to help those children who really just don't get it.
As it happens I am a qualified primary teacher so i do understand why they are doing what they are doing. It just isn't fair for those children for whom the new method is failing them.
As alisonmc has stated, standards have indeed fallen in the last 10 years, exactly the same amount of time that the new numeracy strategy has been in place.

I am so glad that my dc school has at last seen the light

I agree, in some sense I learnt the current method by understanding what the sum was using cusinaire rods, so tens and units were obvious, For writing on paper old fashioned methods seem more compact and accurate, and its telling that none of the children I know who are at private primaries have been taught the "current" method.

Hi Marymoocow - Great to see a primary teacher with common sense ! I am a former secondary teacher who taught, Maths, Economics and Business Studies and was appauled at the levels of basic numeracy that pupils from Primary brought with them. I am very convinced that Primary teachers sometimes are following this National Numeracy Strategy without asking the simple question "Why?". Do we need to change a strategy that has worked for numerous years beforehand to some new fangled idea? We need to ask ourselves about the long term impact that all methods have on children, afterall, children are individuals and what may work for some will not meet all. Flexibility is the key and children should not be told "that's wrong - don't use this method again", just because it isn't in keeping with the current theme. I'd award marks to pupils who have found a other ways of tackling numeracy that turns on their magic light bulbs. The old fashioned partition method - certainly turned on DS light bulb and he was beaming (literally) as he discovered that there was nothing really complicated with addition and subtraction ! The sooner that this new silly method is scrapped the better - we shall have more confident children who enjoy Maths rather than find it a chore.

Maybe we ought to start some official campaign . Seriously it is good to find someone else that feels the same way and feels that they can say it.
I know what you mean about your ds. Numeracy homework was a constant fight. But no more, he sits down, gets on with it and knows that it isn't going to take him 3 hours. Like I have said before i know that some children take to the new method. My dd is flying through. It just doesn't suit all children.

Thanks for all your support. Hope your ds continues to thrive on his new-found numeracy skills

I'm still looking for any thing about the numeracy strategy review on any "official" website - I teach maths at Uni level hence my interest

Wow!!!
There's no need to suggest that I'm a bad teacher and just being blindly led by what is being dictated by Whitehall!

For the record I teach all methods. I don't just use one strategy as that would leave only half the class learning an objective. However, this is the best method to start with as it helps them grasp the understanding of place value. Most children of middling and above ability grasp this well and then move on to more formal methods such as the column one. It would be very silly to then expect children with full understanding to spend hours writing out calculations they don't need. I've never been in a school where this has happened.

Parents are asked not to teach formal methods from the off (Y1) to enable teachers to focus on the place value aspect. By the time they get into Y3 they should all be attempting or at least exposed to the full range of methods as all good teachers know that you need to teach a range of strategies if you want your entire class to understand.

I'm a leading numeracy teacher so I do know what I'm talking about. I've never had any negative feedback on my numeracy methods from either pupils or parents. I came on here to explain why that method was used, not to suggest it should preclude all others. Nor to be referred to as 'some primary teacher' with the inference that I don't know what I'm talking about!

Just wanted to add to what homemama has said, I teach primary and know that introducing the formal method that I was taught at school, as I guess many of you on here were too, just will not work with some children. Some need that understanding of place value so that calculations with larger numbers make sense to them. But, of course some children are more than ready to tackle the so called formal method and therefore I, and all my colleagues make sure those that need them get them. I feel sad that so many of you seem to have experience of teachers that don't seem to be able to meet the needs of the children in their care. Schools don't really have a choice about using the NNS and nothing is new in this review. Good teachers will continue doing what they've always done.