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SPAG Paper - SATS Please can someone advise me/help

51 replies

summerdaysarehere · 09/04/2017 22:03

I have a son in Y6 sitting SATS in a month. He is a bright boy but there has been no particular prep for SATS at school - no extra lessons, mocks, homework etc. He has been sent home with one past maths SAT paper over the holiday. This led me to take a look at the format of the papers for english and SPAG on line. I have no issues with the reading paper which looks ok but I have realised from talking to him (and a friend on a play date) and discussing the SPAG paper that they do not seem to have been prepared for it at all. They had no idea at what a lot of the questions meant when I asked them e.g. subjunctives, noun phrase, adverbials, past perfect tense, determiners etc. On reflection while I expect general grammar will have been covered in passing in english they don't seem to have had any grammar homework or had grammar in exams. I have no idea how they can therefore be expected to confidently tackle this SPAG paper.

I feel bad that he is going to be sitting a paper he is ill prepared for. What can I do? We have a month to go. I would be really grateful for your thoughts on following ideas:

  1. print off past SATs papers (I know that format changed for some topics in 2016 though unsure about SPAG) and work through them with him. Not sure how I can help with some of the technical parts though as I do not know them and nor does he. Are there work books we should be doing instead and if so what is the best one?
  2. Buy a set of books such as Schofield & Sims Grammar - however it would not be case of just buying year 6 as some topics such as fronted adverbials look like they should have been covered in earlier years - I could buy say year 3 - 6 and I could plod through these and hope they explain sufficiently well for me to explain to him.
  3. Buy a subscription to something like theschoolrun.com but is this any good? Is this the best one?
  4. How is any of this going to help with the anecdotal things I have picked up from similar threads on here such as things like the fact that all exclamatory sentences must start with either what or how? How would I find this sort of stuff out?
  5. how would this help me find out things such as "all modal verbs combine with an infinitive" [found on another thread] - I don't understand one word of that sentence!!! :)

Please don't suggest do nothing as I hate the thought of him going into a test he is bound to do poorly in as from my lay persons review of the papers he just has not been given the basic tools he needs. I want to help but just not sure the best way how. If someone would rather PM me then please feel free to do so. Thanks very much.

OP posts:
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SuperRainbows · 10/04/2017 18:35

And as for revision sessions before and after school, I would refuse to send my dcs in. If they haven't covered everything in 6 hours a day for 7 years, last minute panicking isn't going to help.

LittleBearPad · 10/04/2017 18:36

What is the actual need to know what a fronted adverbial is. Confused.

TeenAndTween · 10/04/2017 18:45

I can't really think of any need to know what a fronted adverbial is, apart from a teacher being able to say something like 'occasional use of fronted adverbials in creative writing helps make the writing more interesting'. Where you can replace 'fronted adverbial' with similes / metaphors / assonance or whatever.

I don't think that this level of grammar knowledge is useful for MFLs up to GCSE either. Obviously knowing parts of speech, tenses and a few other bits is helpful, but fronted adverbials, or subordinating v coordinating conjunctions? Not so much imo.

user789653241 · 10/04/2017 18:50

I don't know, why is it so wrong for children to learn English grammar in primary? For most children, it maybe something they forget, but for some, it may lead to something else, more interest in literacy, etc.

I learned English as second language, so grammar was very important.
I wouldn't say "should of" instead of "should have", but see so many people use it, makes me think learning basic grammar is very important, especially when you have kids to help.

LittleBearPad · 10/04/2017 18:59

Absolutely grammar is important. But they can learn that through creative writing not by being told the obscure technical terms that most people outside of primary education have never heard of and certainly have no need to know beyond passing a silly test.

TeenAndTween · 10/04/2017 18:59

Irvine I agree basic grammar is important.

But for many children (I would say at least the bottom 25% if not the lower 50%) the time spent learning the finer points of English grammar aged 10/11 and then promptly forgetting it, could be much better spent.

My DD spent time in class trying to grasp some of this harder grammar. She still struggles with basics such as capitals at the start of sentences, full stops at the end, spelling relatively simple words such as which and who and one. The time spent on the complicated grammar could have been much better spent on ensuring she actually could do^ the basics. The school said that it was in the curriculum so they had to attempt to teach it to her.

The G bit of the SPaG test isn't about writing correctly, it is about "the naming of parts" . I agree useful for the more able, but a waste of time for the less able.

NB I agree the basics nouns/verbs/adverbs etc is useful and also tenses, but not much more than that.

LittleBearPad · 10/04/2017 19:00

I wouldn't say "should of" instead of "should have". Neither would I, by the way. However that has nothing to do with fronted adverbials.

Trb17 · 10/04/2017 19:08

I had to google 'subordinate clause' as I'd never heard of it. DD (Y6) is now gobsmacked at how little I know about grammar by her new standards Shock

user789653241 · 10/04/2017 19:08

Little, I know! Grin

I once asked the question when I started to see lots of use of "of" instead of "have", thought it was some kind of slang/new use.

Some poster told me it's most likely to do with poor teaching of basic grammar in the past. It just came to my mind, that's all!

user789653241 · 10/04/2017 19:15

"Subordinate clause" is definitely taught at my ds' school in yr4.
He was doing online work sometime ago, and said he learned it at school.

TeenAndTween · 10/04/2017 19:41

They are teaching more grammar now lower down the year groups. So there won't be the cramming that last years y6 had.

I will be interested to see whether this makes it easier to learn (as more spread out) or harder (as trying to understand the concepts younger).

It will also be interesting to see whether this helps the children become 'better' (more clear, coherent, interesting) writers, or just more complicated technical ones as they shoehorn in lots of different types of construction without, at that age, a 'feel' for what works best.

TeenAndTween · 10/04/2017 19:42

year's

LittleBearPad · 10/04/2017 19:49

Anyone who reads Michael Gove's articles in The Times will see he is definitely an example of 'do as I say, rather than do as I do'. His free form approach to grammatical construction is rather different to the absurd curriculum he developed.

user789653241 · 10/04/2017 20:08

Teen, I think teaching them in lower year can be an advantage, at least they get used to those terms.

When I asked my ds what it was, he said he learned it at school, but hasn't got a clue what it was!

Buttercupsandaisies · 10/04/2017 20:14

I'd just look at the past papers, Google will bring up some quizzes. I admit our school have taken it seriously - they brought home 13 past papers this half term.

I'm going to go against the grain though and sat here that they are important to the child. Our secondary school (the primary is a feeder) sets exclusively from the sats. Sets are then only changed in February - that's a long time if you end in the wrong set imo

GoldenBlue · 10/04/2017 20:25

When they changed the SATs last year they also implemented a new policy around targets. The children's SAT grades are used to identify their official targets for GCSEs. This is mandatory and applied across all schools. So the SATs are important.

However, the important thing is that the child achieves an appropriate score for their capability, rather than a hugely impressive score.

Surely it's as wrong for a kid to have a high grade due to ridiculous cramming that they will then fail to live up to for the next 5 years as to achieve a poor grade?

ReallyReallyReally · 10/04/2017 20:32

I agree with pp that say that SATs do matter. At my DS's secondary school, the SATs results determine their targets, which cannot be easily changed, which in turn determine their sets. I wish I'd known this before he took them instead of listening to the "SATs are only for the school" brigade.

user789653241 · 10/04/2017 20:39

Lots of MN teachers has been saying sats matter to the child. And I definitely believe it. Though I don't agree with cramming just to bring the results up.

TeenAndTween · 10/04/2017 20:43

I agree SATs matter to the pupil and that targets are set from them.

Not very impressed with a school that won't modify y7 sets until February though!

My argument is more with trying to teach pupils like my DD stuff that was clearly beyond her rather than using the time more usefully. Also with the whole 'G' curriculum itself too.

Trb17 · 10/04/2017 20:50

From my point of view, DD was very exam phobic and now, due to her school being SATs obsessed sitting practice paper after practice paper through all Y6, she's actually got over it a bit and is performing much better with less stress. So no matter what results she gets, if all the pressure of Y6 means she's less scared of exams in high school, I'll take that as a silver lining.

BerylThePeril44 · 10/04/2017 20:56

Year 6 teacher here. Bit late to do much in depth teaching/ learning now but I recommend these - 10 min mini tests based on new test style and covering everything. A couple of day would really help. Children quickly improve when they become familiar with the test style www.cgpbooks.co.uk/Parent/books_ks2_SATS_Buster_Range.book_EMXB23.book_EXPG22

kesstrel · 11/04/2017 13:12

In my view, the main reason for learning about subordinate clauses is that it: a) helps with punctuating correctly, especially use of commas; b) helps children identify what a sentence is, and so prevent sentence fragments and run-on sentences. Some children can learn this intuitively, through reading; others need more help.

user1480989751 · 11/04/2017 13:24

The National Curriculum provided by mrs is great but considering that you have just 4 weeks left. You need to get practice tests for SPAG which appears to be the area of concern you have.

All the major UK SATs publishers are tailored to match the 2014 National Curriculum requirements so its best to dive into using any of the major publishers considering the 4 weeks constraints.

Of all the major publishers, CGP seems the most popular and I actually found them useful for SPAG, Reading and Maths.

You can get practice materials directly from the publishers : (CGP, Letts, Scholastic, Schofield & Sims). However, getting them on Amazon may just be faster for you as you can get them on next day basis. I have tried DD using the four publisher practice questions and taken her through the revision guides she's pretty comfortable in terms of results and time pacing/management having identified/exposed her weak areas using all the tests. We're know concentrating on areas requiring improvement.

I will recommend the KS1/KS2 Schofield & Sims Revision Guide / Practice Tests for Maths & English as they perfectly cover the requirements of the National Curriculum and are the toughest of all the published work I have seen. You need not worry about adjoining years - 1,3,4& 5 where SATs are not taken. Take your son through the Revision Guides and get practice materials. That'll be my advise considering your time constraints.

The List is recommended for KS2.
English Practice Papers & Revision Guide
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Key Stage 2 English Practice Papers: KS2 English, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Practice Papers)

Key Stage 2 English Revision Guide: KS2 English, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Revision Guides)

Maths Practice Papers & Revision Guide
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Key Stage 2 Maths Practice Papers: KS2 Maths, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Practice Papers)

Key Stage 2 Maths Revision Guide: KS2 Maths, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Revision Guides)

Science Practice Papers & Revision Guide
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Key Stage 2 Science Practice Papers: KS2 Science, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Practice Papers)

Key Stage 2 Science Revision Guide: KS2 Science, Ages 7-11 (SATs for new national curriculum) (Schofield & Sims Revision Guides)

The major publishers have done the work of mapping the national curriculum requirements and they've done a great job there. Lest I forget, buy books published in the years 2016 and 2017 to be on the safe side.

Best of Luck

Trb17 · 11/04/2017 13:25

kesstrel I see what you did there Grin

kesstrel · 11/04/2017 13:31

Trb17 well, looking back at the post, I find I should have written 'prevents' instead of 'prevent'! Being able to work that out is another reason for knowing about subordinate clauses, so it clearly doesn't always help! Smile