Private primary school, what's the advantage?

[jellyspoons]

I have a 3 year old DD who is due to start reception in Sept 2018. She seems bright and enjoys being read books etc, (like many other kids I know). Nor particularly sporty or musical or other unusual talents. We live 100 yards from our village's (undersubscribed) ofsted outstanding primary school. Nearest private schools are about 25 mins drive away. Friends nearby all really like the local school and her friends from nursery would go there.

I went to state schools throughout my education, but my husband went through the private system (his family sacrificed a lot to pay for this, plus he got scholarships).

We could possibly afford private school fees but it would mean me or my husband working more hours, and less nice holidays. We'd have to start saving now!

Anyhow I can't really see any reason to go private and am reluctant to waste time and energy looking into it, but my husband is keen to look at all options.

For those that have their kids at private school, what are the advantages? What do you like about it? What made you choose the private sector?

Thanks!

In my experience, private primary does not offer a significant advantage over an Outstanding state primary plus some tutoring to cover the required syllabus in time for the exam.

It is far more dependent on the academic abilities of the child.

I honestly can't be arsed to continue to debate the minutiae of how much preparation is needed.

You do not appear to have done it so surely have no idea.

Thanks for the input, really helpful. I hadn't really considered the knock on effects onto choices for secondary school options.

The state secondary school near us is ok but not amazing (rated good). The independent secondary schools have assessments in English, maths and a Developed Ability test (what is that??), but both say they're not selective (don't really understand how this works). There are grammars in the next county which are 30 mins drive away but looks like if you pass the 11plus you then get selected on siblings ,then distance from the school . So I really don't know how much of a difference it would make to go private for primary in terms of having private secondary as an option.

Primary wise seems sensible to visit the local school and that should help make the decision

We're not in London, we're in a fairly rural place with a few different bigger towns /cities all about 25 mins drive away (nearest independent school from age 3 to 16 is actually in a different small village, a similar length drive away). I really don't know how competitive the independent secondaries are to get into, would be worth finding out I guess

If you have an outstanding state primary on your doorstep use it, you can always get tutoring later to get into a selective secondary. We had our children's name down at a private primary (Very seductive when you visit and everything is so top notch and your precious baby must have the absolute best! In our case it was an expensive mistake and cost us dearly to extricate ourselves from the contract.) But in the end decided that we would save the money and send them to a 'Good' rated local primary on our doorstep. It meant they could work to school and friends were local. They all got into our preferred selective private secondary with one of them getting an academic scholarship. Maybe if the state school that's close by was over subscribed and people were clambering for places your husband would feel lucky to be in the catchment and more inclined to take up a place, but Ofsted don't hand out Outstanding ratings lightly and you are really lucky. Save the money and get some bang for your (tax) buck!

*walk to school, not work (we weren't sending them down the mines!)

We started off at a nursery of a smallish private school because it was the only place that could offer the days I wanted and DD stayed on for reception.

22 per class. 20 mile drive away(in the opposite direction to work), she only stayed because our local primary had no before/after school provision.

We moved DD in year 2 to the outstanding village primary - I changed jobs to allow me to work at home more. 18 per class, very experienced primary teachers. Not all staff at the private school were qualified.

The village primary was far better than the private school. DD is bright enough, passed the GS test after a working through six mock tests at home.

She does a lot out of school which costs a fair bit but we are not paying for her education.

We didn't live in a GS area when she was younger and fell into it really (quick house move a couple of months before the tests) so no time or thought given to prepping for years as most seemed to have done around here.

I would go state primary all the way. DH would have stuck with private though, and probably still would (no justification he just would).

Here, the people paying for prep do so on the basis that it will give their children an advantage in the very competitive state grammar entrance exams, so their children will get a grammar school place and they'll save the 7 years of secondary school fees (which are probably 33-50% more than primary school fees).

Whether that actually works is debatable but that's the reason why people pay at primary age here.

So when you're considering schools you need to consider what you want for your daughter's education 11-18 and determine whether one option or the other gives you more choices at 11-18.

DS is in reception at a private school.
Reasons:
It is 5 minutes drive not 25. But the state primary is opposite our house.
Class size - DS is in a class of 17 (Max 20).
I liked the teachers, ethos and most facilities.
It felt like my (private) primary school.
The state school head teacher was a witch imo and seemed v motivated towards results, exams, SATs but not really towards nuturing individual children. DH is a school governor there so it was a bit political but I told him to blame his Tory wife It is rated good not outstanding.
We have 1 child so can afford it and want him to go to the private secondary it feeds into.
In your shoes I think I would go local state but be prepared to move before 11.

Dd did preprep. Class sizes started at 14 but crept up to 18 by y2 usually due to siblings being accommodated. Now 20+ is typical.

Advantages were reading daily to either teacher, ta or parent volunteer. Naice rural environment and onsite facilities such as swimming pool, although didn't really get to make most use of them before y3. Wrap around care (free while waiting for older sibling to finish). Activities such as dance or clubs followed on after the school day (from y1). Curriculum included music, pe and dance taught by subject specialists.

Tbh overall it wouldn't have been worth the expense or longer travel time had it not also suited ds who was older. I'd suggest starting at local state school and planning for private option at y3 or y7 entry. If it has a secondary school friends moved theirs at y5/6 so they were established for senior transfer. Not always possible in schools with high demand or low turnover though.

Why not just go and see some then decide if they seem worthwhile?

25 mins drive is too far away really for a 4 year old.

At our school probably under 50% of kids are within 25 mins and it doesn't cause them a problem. The days are very long too. There are a small number who find long days hard but most cope fine.

We went for private primary because it made logistics much easier. Trying to sort out wrap-around care for the local state school was a nightmare. Especially as they expected my summer born DD to do half days for two terms (mornings for the Autumn term, the afternoons for the Spring term).

The private school had brilliant wrap-around (08:15 to 17:45 included in the fees; and 07:30 to 19:30 was possible if you paid extra).

This is an interesting thread. My son does to a pre prep (in central London). It takes about half an hour on the bus (a bit shorter on the way home). We chose it because we loved it as soon as we saw it - it is a great fit for our family and we were thrilled when he got a place.

I would struggle to compare the school he goes to and the more local outstanding primary - mainly because he doesn't go there so I don't know enough about it. Friends have children who do go there and they are very happy with it.

I anticipate that, when the times comes, the school will tell us what sort of senior schools my son should be aiming for and help him to prepare for them. They have asked parents not to tutor separately a couple of times so I assume that, although it is a prep school, tutoring does go on there too (even though the school have said that they think it is unnecessary and possibly unhelpful).

Private doesn't necessarily mean better. If you think that the fees may be a stretch then I may be tempted to go for the state school (provided it is a good fit for your family).

OK, so lots of you think 25 mins is not too far! I guess if it's reliably 25 mins it's not too bad, but if there is rush hour traffic or congestion it can get stressful. DC may also want to join before and after school activity at some point (the extra curricular activities are some of the greatest appeal of private education IMO), and the day can be pretty long then.

We did live 25 mins away and it made a very long day and lots of hanging around for dd as ds started at 8:15 and finished at 3:45 plus any clubs etc. One snowy day it took an hour and half. Others lived a similar distance in the opposite direction which made playdates and parties a pita. 18 months later we moved less than 5 mins away and it made a huge difference.

I think it depends on so many factors.

We are in London and my dd is at a state primary but I always knew I would want her to go to a private secondary school. We are very fortunate that the state primary my dd goes to is good - it's not rated outstanding but it is a good school and has a good mix of kids, including lots of parents who have high aspirations for their children - I think that's important. The main disadvantage for us has been the preparation for entrance exams for the private selective schools - we had to do it all at home and it was not easy.

I think it's totally dependent on how you feel when you look at them and I think there's a huge element of going with your heart. We looked at a local Prep and I was thoroughly underwhelmed - it basically crams for 11+ and has nice polite children....but the facilities are non existent (to the point that the children, including reception age, have to do their nativity in the evening in the hall of a local secondary school as they don't have their own facilities). Our outstanding local state primary has exceedingly high standards, expectations and facilities so for us (once we knew we'd got the place) it was a no brainer. We also looked at a private school (takes age 5-18) further into the country around 30 mins away - this was a totally different kettle of fish from our local prep. It was all singing, all dancing with amazing facilities. Had we moved there and had the money I'd loved to have sent then there...although I'm so pleased with our state primary I wonder now if I could justify the cost.
Look at them before you make a decision but don't discount the state as whilst many private schools are excellent there are many that are destinctly average (I went to an independent secondary so am by no means anti independent). Also, decisions aren't set in stone, you could do state infants then move to private at 7+. It feels like such a big decision (and I felt if we made the wrong one I may ruin his life....yes I was being melodramatic 😀) but you just have to go with your gut but remember you can change later on.
Good luck.

Distinctly!

Hi OP. My DD age 8 attends a private primary school that's a 15 minute drive away (traffic conditions depending!) She went to nursery at an 'outstanding ' state school that's 10 minutes walk away, but we knew she wouldn't get in for school because it was single intake of 30 with all places going to siblings or church kids (C of E school).

The other schools nearby were either not very good or Catholic - we're atheist/humanist. So we went down the private route. The first private school looked good, was very slick on the surface, but I pulled her out after 18 months because the standard of education wasn't great and the teacher couldn't cope so had told the kids not to tell parents about problems that happened at school!
So be aware that just because a private school looks good it doesn't mean it actually is good - don't be blinded by the shiny surface, look beneath. The school DD goes to now is a smaller, less fancy looking private but it's a much better and nicer school and DD is very happy and flying educationally.
I can't really compare it to a state school, because I don't know what happens in a state school, apart from the obvious difference in class sizes. There are 2 classes in each year, with 13 or 14 in each class. They are taught separately for classroom based activities, but join together for PE, games, outdoors science experiments etc. In the morning it's heavy on the 3 R's, but each afternoon is dedicated to a creative topic. They seem to do plenty of art and different sports and the staff put a lot of effort into making topics fun - for instance the caretaker has made an impressive UFO and when the kids are doing 'space' he crashes it somewhere in the grounds and throws green slime around the place - then the kids write a newspaper style report about the crash and take samples of the slime for analysis . I don't remember doing anything like that at primary school.

For me I think the biggest bonus is the small class size - meaning kids have a lot of individual support and work tailored to their particular needs/ability. But this might happen in state schools as well, I've no experience.
Last year the state school down the road doubled it's intake to 60 per year, and we were offered a place but declined as no longer interested. The school has built some new classrooms which has reduced the amount of outside space - which was small to begin with.

25 minutes isn't considered a long journey, some of DD's friends travel quite a long way (40-60mins). But, I think there's a lot to be said for being able to walk to school - you're not going to be worried about traffic for instance.

There's also the question of secondary school to consider. DD's school does a lot of prep for the 11+ as part of regular lessons. School say their pupils should be able to pass the exam with no extra tuition - but from what I've seen most parents get extra tuition from year 4 at least.

I think if I was in your situation I'd give the state school a go and just see how it goes. If at any point you're not happy or have concerns then you can always look at moving her to the private school later. It sounds like a nice little school and it's so close to home she'll make lots of friends on her doorstep. If you're serious about the 11+ you can tutor and it the work in at home.

Our ds is in a private school that goes from 3 - 18 so slightly different to your private option. But our local state options were very oversubscribed and often had over 30 children per class (compared to 15 in the private school), so it was a no brainer really for us really.

In your situation I would have a good hard luck at all options and think about your child's personality, make the decision on what you feel will suit her best.

Also consider if the age range suits your plans for secondary. A 3-18 school is not likely to prepare pupils for other schools' entrance tests and may offer automatic feed to their own, a prep school to 13+ may be less focussed on those wanted to sit 11+ entry but may offer Common Entrance which some traditional independent secondaries still require.

It depends very much on the particular schools and the particular fit for your child. In terms of generic advantages and disadvantages the state school is more local and communal you might walk to school with your DC's friends, they're likely to live very close etc. In terms of advantages of private schools I find there's more trust between the school and parents if you say your child is too ill for school it's accepted etc. Also in general smaller class sizes and more flexibility in terms of the curriculum. More extra curriculars etc. I'de be very careful with some selective private schools - if they're selecting and lots of the kids have tutors, and supportive parents it's very easy for the school to get excellent results without providing a good level of education. Some even ask kids to leave because they're "not a good fit" (likely to ruin their leavers statistics).

A lot of the actual choice though comes down to the particulars of the child and the school. There are plenty of private schools you couldn't pay me to send my DC to and likewise state primaries I'd move heaven and earth to avoid.

jellyspoons. This thread seems to have gone off course of the point you were asking - is state or independent best? As a parent who has experienced both state and private I would give the following advice: a good state primary will suffice and perhaps you could follow on with indep secondary. But looking to the long term future of GCSE/A Levels and university access indep prep/primary will in general give the advantage of starting those all important cv details such as a musical instrument very early, therefore obtaining a high grade eventually, plus more extra-curricular activities that show "team work" etc. In my experience independents tend to focus more time on the arts in general. It is a more well-rounded experience. My privately educated child is more confident than my state educated child. Sport was much more in evidence at the indep. The state secondary majored on academic, to the point of stressing pupils (it was grammar), whilst reducing or dropping the arts availability due to funding issues. As we can all tell from the press, in the immediate future state schools will see drops in income which will reduce the subjects available, whilst our local indep is oversubscribed and still offers 24 A level courses. I am curious as to why your local Ofsted outstanding primary is undersubscribed. Beware of Ofsted "outstanding" awards as it may have been awarded ages ago and frankly I don't think they are worth the paper... etc. Get a feel for your local primary with a couple of visits and maybe consider state primary first and indep later on. The good thing with indep is that you can always opt in in a middle year. They are private businesses and are always keen to gain good students. Be sure to ask about scholarships if you go down that route, there are many available, many from the charitable foundations behind the indep schools. Good luck.