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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

Original poster

Urgent help! Child not allowed full time education.

53 replies

Yummum19 · 07/03/2017 23:08

Hi all,

My DD is 4 and is in reception. She was born with a long list of medical problems, has had numerous operations over her 4 years but as a whole at the moment doing really well. She started school full time no problems and the school seemed confident they could manage her health issues at school just fine. They were told a few months ago she would have a planned operation which would mean no playtime/p.e for 6 weeks, again they said no problem.

Her operation was January and she hasn't been allowed back to school full time since. The explanation being there isn't sufficient staff to supervise her on the occasions she can't join in with the rest of her class. I'm being allowed to drop her off at 2 and pick her up at 3.

My question is, what can I do!?

They are apparently putting in an urgent request for extra funding but headteacher said could take another 6 weeks. Can I fight this decision or is there any way to speed it along? Is this fair or right?

Any advice would be really grateful as this is becoming more stressful than the actual operation was!

OP posts:
WateryTart · 08/03/2017 12:32

The situation could be a lot different, Irvine

Teachers/supervisors are expected to walk around the playground while on duty. If the DC needs to sit down she will be unsupervised. If she needs to stay inside she will be unsupervised.

If the other classes are at maximum numbers then another DC cannot be placed in with them. There are many potential reasons why the school feels unable to supervise and guarantee the DC's safety.

user789653241 · 08/03/2017 12:41

There was a time my ds had to stay in the staff room/ office/ with HT, anywhere adult was around. I know it must have been pain for teachers/staff, but it wasn't forever, and they were able to accommodate without a big fuss.

mummytime · 08/03/2017 13:01

Watery - it might be tough for the school - but it actually sounds as if what they are doing is both illegal and damaging the child's education. If they said they couldn't have her at all, the LA would intervene and would be obliged to provide an education to the child- using tutors if necessary.

WateryTart · 08/03/2017 13:01

How long ago was that? Nowadays there is "guaranteed" no contact time for preparation.

Original poster
Yummum19 · 08/03/2017 14:20

Yes she can walk and stand.

I have tried to put forward every option I could possibly think of.

  • sitting in the office at break/lunch time
  • holding hands on the playground with the teacher
  • me picking her up from school and taking her out for break and lunch and returning her back for lessons

But every option has been refused.

Of course I am trying to pick up the education missed and I'm doing all I can to help bridge the gap in her learning at home but I'm not a teacher and I'm worried she'll fall far behind by the time this finally gets sorted. One hour of school a day is not good enough.

OP posts:
lacebell10 · 08/03/2017 14:48

Lea generally do reject on the first application norm to appeal and it accepted. It's unacceptable for her not to be in school. Even at 4 she is entitled to 15 hours education even on nursery. They are being discriminatory The law states that they have a duty of anticipation and not reactionary. Schools are now covered by the Equality Act and should know this. TBH she won't be the only one needing 1:1 at breaktime. Office staff work at lunchtime and break time she could sit with them or at worst she could sit in the lunch hall with a book or ipad. Most schools due to the new free meals are serving food through all of lunch.
They are failing your child and you need to write to the Governors responsible for SEN and Equality and state that they have a legal responsibility to sort this out. Your next card is to write to the LEA telling them to sort it out. Your last card is a complaint to OFSTED about failing SEN and Equality standards which will go against their next inspection

sirfredfredgeorge · 08/03/2017 15:27

Teachers/supervisors are expected to walk around the playground while on duty. If the DC needs to sit down she will be unsupervised. If she needs to stay inside she will be unsupervised.

She only can't run around and play, a chair in the playground would meet her needs and not require any additional staffing wouldn't it? If they'd attempted that, and she'd refused to stay seated and therefore needed more support, that might be different, but still.

bloodyteenagers · 08/03/2017 15:44

How many 4 year old would stay seated without supervision when their peers are running around having fun? Not that many. They would be off that chair as soon as
They could.

sirfredfredgeorge · 08/03/2017 15:57

Summer born DD had a chair in playground for summer and spring term reception (for short periods after operation's on broken arm). It worked for her. It wasn't even attempted here, maybe it would've failed.

Obviously playground setups differ, and the reasonable adjustment our school made may not have been appropriate, but "nothing we can do" does not appear to be a suitable response by the school.

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 08/03/2017 16:47

I think the issue may be that the free flow/ continuous provision set up at the school means there is no discernable difference between 'playtime' and the majority of the day. Certainly in most EYFS settings I've seen, there are no difference to the physical risks out on the playground than there are in the EYFS outdoor area (and even indoor area) where the pupils have free access to play equipment for most of the day.

The school may feel that in she needs 1:1 for playtime, then really she needs it for most of the day.

However, I think they are on thin ice refusing to provide full time education. Is it an academy OP or a community school?

Original poster
Yummum19 · 08/03/2017 16:49

I think that is my major issue here. The school doesn't seem to be willing to try anything. I feel like they have just washed their hands of her without trying. When i suggested holding hands with a teacher in the playground it was brushed off instantly with 'that would make her more upset seeing the other kids playing.'

Whilst I agree with this to some extent, she would then have the opportunity to play with her friends for the other 5 and a half hours they are in school so I was abit Hmm

OP posts:
mummytime · 08/03/2017 16:50

I have known schools cope with children with various broken limbs. Usually sitting in a library or other space with a "friend" and being supervised by a TA or Librarian who takes their break later (or a secretary). This kind of thing happens all the time, it is unacceptable for a child to be missing so much education.

Original poster
Yummum19 · 08/03/2017 16:54

Low it's a community school

I do sort of agree with them deciding they need a 1:1, of course I'm much happier in the knowledge she is being taken care of properly however my issue is this wasn't a surprise to them. I prepared them for this even before she started at the school so they knew it was coming up and they knew what her restrictions would be post op. So it just feels so wrong her having to be kept at home just because they didn't get organised quickly enough.

But then again, I don't know enough about the procedures to understand fully. Does anyone know? Should they have applied for funding prior to the op or are they only allowed to apply when the operation has happened?

OP posts:
youarenotkiddingme · 08/03/2017 16:54

Have you got a paper trail?

I'd be sending an email to HT copying in la Sen department saying they knew she had these needs, echp was refused as they felt needs could be met with resources normally available in MS school and funding should have been applied for before hand if they felt it was needed. Being there 2-3 pm is ridiculous. They don't do pe or playtime for the first 5 hours of the day. And yes, she could be in a different class during the 2 pe lessons a week and they should provide her a classroom during lunch.

Perhaps highlight yourself exactly how they could be making reasonable adjustments.

I'd go as far as saying you will be staying with her Friday for the hour whilst they complete the risk assessment for her return FT on Monday.

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 08/03/2017 16:55

Are you otherwise happy with this school? They do sound monumentally inflexible and unhelpful.

Is your DD going to have ongoing issues during her time at Primary? If so, TBH, I might be having a look round for somewhere more inclusive.

Justwantcookies · 08/03/2017 17:03

Would you be able to go in for the times she isn't able to join in with things for next few weeks? The school sounds like its being pretty unreasonable

Original poster
Yummum19 · 08/03/2017 17:13

youarenotkiddingme no paper trail, the conversations I've had with the headteacher/class teacher have been in person but I'm thinking it would be wise to start one.

low yes I was otherwise happy with the school but tbh this has taken away all my confidence in them. Her health needs will be ongoing throughout primary and the funny thing is, they have been handling more serious health issues completely fine! So I'm so confused why all this fuss is being made.

OP posts:
Original poster
Yummum19 · 08/03/2017 17:14

justwantcookies absolutely! I have offered this option to the school numerous times but been refused.

OP posts:
heebiejeebie · 08/03/2017 21:05

Don't know if this is a dumb idea but could you be the supervising adult - if you're off work anyway.

heebiejeebie · 08/03/2017 21:05

Oh sorry - didn't read I the end.

tethersend · 08/03/2017 21:47

It may be helpful to contact the LA's medical tuition service- your DD is entitled to a full time education and if the school cannot provide it at this time, then they must make arrangements for her to receive one. They would need to make the referral.

In practice, the medical tuition service are likely to assess her as being able to attend school full time and will support her transition. It may be helpful if the message is delivered to school by the 'experts', so your voice is not the lone one.

Otherwise, I would do as others have suggested and notify the school that your DD will be returning full time on x date.

tethersend · 08/03/2017 21:48

If you PM me your LA, I will see if I can find contact details for the medical tuition service.

Original poster
Yummum19 · 09/03/2017 09:26

Thank you tether

OP posts:
RedBugMug · 09/03/2017 22:08

regarding meeting in person: follow up with a short email summary 'as discussed in our meeting on...'

Vickster99 · 10/03/2017 19:58

God that's awful! I really feel for you and your DD. At our school, there seems to be no problem keeping kids indoors if needed. A little girl broke her arm and she was kept indoors at playtime and each day she was allowed to choose a friend to stay with her. My daughter was chuffed to bits when she was chosen.

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