How much do Primary SATs matter when picking a school?

[user1485823317]

We're in the process of moving to a new flat in London and since our DS1 will be going to school soon, this move determines what school he'll start at in reception.

One of the schools in our neighborhood is often recommended and has an (old) outstanding Ofsted, and a reputation for creativity and diversity. Excellent!

But its SATs scores are not great in comparison to neighboring schools. I am not English so I don't even really know what these are and what they test! A friend said that high SATs scores may just mean that the school is really teaching to the test and not doing much else.

I like the idea of a creative, happy school that isn't too intense . . . but are middle of the road/low-ish for the neighborhood SATs a warning sign?

If I were you, I would look at progress data rather than raw SATs results. And also progress data for whichever group you think your kid will be in (high, middle or low prior attainment). Schools which get low overall SATs scores can score well on progress and on catering for all abilities. My DD's school got really not good raw scores on the SATs but good scores on progress across the cohort, and great scores on progress for the prior attainment group I believe she would be in. They are doing a good job of tailoring their educational offering for all the children in the cohort. Some schools nearby that get better raw scores don't do so well on the progress measure. In the end, you just have to go and see the schools and see if you actually like them!

I agree. It is progress data that matters more. It should also be looked at in conjunction with other things you think are desirable. Near me, some primaries take music seriously and run orchestras. Others do very little regarding choirs or collaborative music but children do learn to play an instrument. Same with sport and school teams.

I think user is a jaded secondary school teacher who is out of touch with the way parents view primary schools. What children can do in primary school matters and some form of measurement about how good the teaching is matters too. Hatred of inspection and scrutiny is usually coupled with a political dogma rather than wanting the best for their school, or the children. Luckily in all my time in education I have not met this type of attitude very often. Most teachers recognise that exams and scrutiny are part of education and always have been. The major difference now is that parents can access the data!

user, I am really glad that my DS's school uses all the data at its disposal intelligently, in order to pinpoint where he is succeeding and where he might need more help:

"He came to us as level X in his SATs in this subject. As a result, his target is Y. However, at the moment, he is working at Z level in tests but closer to Y level in class. We're been looking carefully at why there might be this discrepancy, and scrutinised his work. It looks like A might be an issue, so we are doing P,Q and R at school and wonder whether you could try to reinforce P at home."

I would much prefer that to a vague 'Nice boy, responds well in class, doing fine, hope for a middling grade for him'. OK, the data isn't infallible. One reason for a discrepancy in grades may be 'coaching' for SATs or grade inflation at that point, and that possibility has almost always been discussed as part of the above conversation. However, I would be extremely concerned if a teacher in secondary said 'SATs and predictions are rubbish, we'll leave him bumbling along' - though obviously SATs are much less applicable to e.g. Art, DT, languages than they are to subjects closer to the core English and Maths.

"He came to us as level X in his SATs in this subject. As a result, his target is Y. However, at the moment, he is working at Z level in tests but closer to Y level in class. We're been looking carefully at why there might be this discrepancy, and scrutinised his work. It looks like A might be an issue, so we are doing P,Q and R at school and wonder whether you could try to reinforce P at home."

My God, do people actually BELIEVE this drivel!

Do you think the SATS levels are actual real descriptions of where some one is in their education? They are not - they are a hotpotch of vague statements, guesses and statistical fudge. Because chilren do not develop in a smooth, linear formation, all their skills and subjects move forward jerkily, and separately.

Do you beleive that the SATS levels actually can be used to predict a "target?" They can't, the targets are based on what the "average" child with that level acheived at GCSE - but if you look into it, you are likely to find that well under a QUARTER of children fall into the "average" band, it's a mean only. Children with EVERY SAT level go on to achieve EVERY GCSE grade

Do you believe that school tests correlate to SATS levels? They don't. Some exhausted and bewildered teacher has sat with a test and a handful of pages of level descriptors, tried and failed for hours to match questions to descriptors, and in the end attached grade boundaries with progressively wilder and wilder and more tenuous links.

As to the assessment of class work -PLEASE!

It is a total sham.

I would feel embarrassed for anyone who judges this as "intelligent use"

What your school is saying to you, is that your child is struggling with P, please support us in reinforcing this.

Hasn't it occurred to you how much more could be achieved without all the time and energy staff waste on the gibberish PRECEDING " your child is struggling with P, please support us in reinforcing this."

because I can assure you, it is significantly more time and energy than is spent on actually planning, teaching and marking.

I would be extremely concerned if a teacher in secondary said 'SATs and predictions are rubbish,

never heard a teacher in secondary who believes differently.....

If you're the type of parent who will support your child, read with them at home and take them places, explain things to them, then I would say not to worry about the SATs results. Look for a school that suits your child, or ideally is close to you. I taught Year 6 in one of the worst performing areas of inner London. Due to the social demographic make up of the school, lateness of English acquisition and complex needs of the children, the results were never going to be the whole picture.
What I'm saying is, your child might well go to school with children who are set up to not succeed at SATs, so looking at results alone does not give the whole picture. My DD1 is starting school next year and I shall be looking at behaviour as I believe that is an important starting point. If the children are calm and there's a good atmosphere, children have a better chance of learning. Good luck

Gosh we all love a teacher who spends more time on gibberish than planning, teaching and marking! It just shows how poor some schools are. There are considerably more poor secondary schools than primary schools and I think user's post explains why.

Assessment does not, ever, take more time in primary than planning, teaching and marking. You need to get into a few good primary schools, user. You will find that teachers in primary know the children because they teach them every day, more or less all day. This is why the statements they make to parents and the follow up at parents evenings are not all about targets, it is also about the personality of the child, settling down and organisation, any isues that may be barriers to learning, how they can do better, enthusiasm etc. Teachers look at children's work all the time through marking, classwork and discussion and they also consider how children can be helped by suggesting help at home. I do not believe any primary teacher sees children as purely exam fodder or allows assessment to dominate their workload. It is however, important and in many schools takes place about twice a term when it is officially recorded and progress is monitored on these judgements. Any school that does a lot more than that, does not need to. I have met many primary teachers who love their jobs. They may not enjoy SATS week, but they are proud of the children, and their successes and the progres they achieve. That is why they do the job.

It will come down to very fine judgements by the teacher and it is a crushing disappointment if children do not do as well in their SATS as they could do. They know the children, they have nurtured the children, they have encouraged the children, they have boosted their confidence when it was lacking and they care. User: you truly sound as if you do not and mock laughing at parents is hardly going to win your argument.