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Original poster

What age to start tutoring?

71 replies

hibbledobble · 30/01/2017 22:15

Dd is in year 1 in a state school in a deprived area. The iintake is very mnixed ability.

She is very bright and is doing very well so ffar, but does report that the work is too easy for her so she finds it boring. We do a lot of reading and exercise books at home, at her instigation. She loves Learning.

At 11 we would likefor her to go to a pprivate or grammar school, and I'm conscious that there is likely already a gap between her and privately educated children.

At what age is it worth trying to 'top up' her learning with a tutor? And would 121 or a tutorial school setting be better?

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Tomorrowillbeachicken · 01/02/2017 09:51

Depends on the school nursery I think. They didn't at my DS' school nursery. They only started phonics in mid October in reception too.

CripsSandwiches · 01/02/2017 14:10

I can totally understand your concern - I don't think you're being pushy you just want to make sure DD meets her potential. There is a lot of evidence though that tutoring bright kids can lead to them being disruptive in their regular lessons as they are bored and can lead to them disengaging with school long term (obviously this isn't inevitable just a risk).

Personally I would continue doing what you're doing at home and make sure she gets lots of enrichment - could she learn an instrument for example? If you do tutoring it should be a sideways step (e.g. learning to apply what se already knows in different ways, or thinking more deeply about the topics she's already covered) rather than going forward in the curriculum to avoid getting too far ahead of her peers in terms of the curriculum.

I also don't think there's any harm in mentioning your concerns to DD's teacher, just from a "it might be useful to help DD concentrate" perspective rather than a moaning - "you're not stretching her" one.

Ta1kinPeace · 01/02/2017 17:36

neither of my kids ever had tutors
one is now at Uni
the other is doing Maths and Physics type A levels
tutoring is very overrated

Middleoftheroad · 03/02/2017 05:57

We tutored in year 5. I think any child taking the 11 plus needs some prep, be it practising a few tests with parents or tutor. mainly about format and style as the 11 plus is not simply an IQ test as another said, it's verbal and non verbal reasoning and maths - the former of which are not taught in schools.

I found tutoring on top of school work, my workand activities to be another chore and I don't think any of us wanted another year of that, even though mine love school, so I would think carefully for a child so young. IMO it should be year 5 only if your aim is the 11plus.

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 19:29

Where we are tutoring for the 11+ is most definitely required, if only to put children on a level playing field. It is highly competitive.

A really good point about tutoring currently might make her more bored in class. I'll continue with the workbooks as she genuinely loves them, but hold off on tutoring.

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 20:48

I live in a comp area so we do not have tutoring
but kids from our county seem to still get into top Unis
in fact DD who is in first year Pure Science at an RG says that the tutored kids are now really struggling

at the other end, the DD of my best friend sat the 11+ with no prep at all
sailed through it and is sailing at her London Grammar
because she is genuinely bright rather than having sharp elbowed parents

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 21:06

The problem is that when the average parents tutor from year 4 or 5 for the 11+ and there are 10+ candidates per place, you need to tutor for an even playing field. I know lots who have passed the 11+, and every single one was tutored. Many of course we're tutored and did not get places.

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Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 21:12

Nope
if the kid is truly bright, the tutoring will only bring the others up to their level

hence my friends DD who whumped it cos she is truly GS material

tutoring will not get them though Uni or through work
you are just deferring the failure

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 21:17

The tutored peers of mine, many have gone on to RG unis, several to oxbridge, and got good degrees. Certainly not deferred failure.

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Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 21:18

be wary of comparing across the decades ...

bibbitybobbityyhat · 03/02/2017 21:19

Goady.

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 21:19

Also many people lie about the amount of tutoring they do!

OP posts:
Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 21:27

how goady?

the untutored child I know v v well and i know the parents v v well
If I had a suspicion she was tutored I would not say she was not

tutoring is an arms race fought by those who would not naturally win

happy2bhomely · 03/02/2017 21:40

My dc4 started school able to read. I never taught him. He did one term at nursery where he did some phonics.

He had to do 2 whole terms of phonics in reception despite me telling his teacher that he could read. He was bored stiff.

We moved house and changed schools. He started year 1. He was asked to label a picture of a human body. He labelled it with brain, stomach, intestine etc and got told to stop showing off. He was given another sheet and told to label the head, hands and feet.

Some schools are just not very good.

I removed him from school and we now home educate.

Something that might interest your dd if she likes doing extra work at home is a subscription called 'Mrs Wordsmith.' It is a vocabulary builder and my dc are loving it.

Just keep reading with her and save the tutoring for a bit later on.

TeenAndTween · 03/02/2017 21:42

I don't think you can fairly compare grammar areas v fully comp ones when it comes to tutoring.

It is clear to me from these threads that in grammar areas many families feel a need to tutor. Whilst Talkin may well be right that the very brightest don't need it, there must be a whole swathe for whom getting in or not depends on a parent or external person tutoring. You can't fairly say 'all who were tutored will struggle' as that might be implying that 50% of those at some grammars will struggle which I can't believe would be true. I agree it seems to be an arms race though.

However if a child needs way more tutoring than the standard amount, just to get in, that may well be an indication they may be at the bottom of the school and may struggle to keep up. So if standard is to start y5, then there shouldn't be a need to start in y3.

Some people claim not to tutor because they are able to do it themselves at home. But then look down on people who 'outsource'. That can't be right.

(Now what I do think is strange is the people who pay for private schools and then still feel a need to pay for tutoring on top. That's paying 3 times!)

GlobalTechIndustries · 03/02/2017 21:49

As you say she loves learning, then i would hire a tutor straight away and then begin from there on which subjects to cover. As they say a mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Mrskeats · 03/02/2017 22:00

Tutoring is an arms race? What does that even mean? ta1kin
I tutor children who have come in from other countries and for some disabled children who are being homeschooled. I also have 11 plus and private exam people and just children who are struggling for various reasons; illness and missing school, for example.
Deferring failure. How insulting and ridiculous.

GlobalTechIndustries · 03/02/2017 22:03

"Tutoring is an arms race ?" My understanding is your aiming to hire the best tutors before the competition hires them for their services.

Mrskeats · 03/02/2017 22:06

Well I'm always fully booked :)) but I think that was just a goady post further up.

Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 22:07

MrsKeats
11+ tutoring in the few parts of the UK that persist with the 11+ is an arms race.
It is not about running well
it is about running faster than the other kid
there are a limited number of places, accessed through a test that can be gamed
and the statistics show that it is gamed to a frankly offensive degree
at huge cost to parents
with little long term gain

millions and millions of pounds are spent by Kent Parents on tutoring and prep schools
Hampshire has a much smaller "industry"
and yet they get similar numbers of kids into top Uni courses

which shows that the money could have been better spent elsewhere

Tutoring to get kids used to different systems, or for kids who have been ill or refugees is not part of the zero sum game

starting at age 4 for the 11+ is most definitely zero sum

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 22:17

You can say iit's ddeferring failure but there is no evidence behind this. My peers who were tutored and passed the 11+ now have successful and well paid careers.

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Ta1kinPeace · 03/02/2017 22:31

That just proves that they had wealthy motivated parents - two prime factors in later success
it does not prove that the tutoring made the blind bit of difference

please do not be sucked in to thinking that tutoring is essential
its not

Original poster
hibbledobble · 03/02/2017 22:38

Neither can you say for certain it hasn't. You certainly have some very strong feelings on the matter.

No one has said tutoring is essential on this thread, in fact I have said earlier that I will be holding off for now

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 04/02/2017 10:07

Mine sat 11 plus in September. We are not a full Grammar area. tutoring for all or part of yr 5 seems norm ( people are cagey about discussing it) The 11 plus forum has info on different types of tests by area/best resources. Having come out the other side maths seemed to be the area needing the most input they are tested on full yr 6 and beyond curriculum 3 weeks into yr 6. No matter how bright you are - in maths test 1 minute a question so no time to work out how to do it in exam if you haven't been taught it. Verbal reasoning is something that improves with practice again in our area 80 questions in 50 mins child needs to have practiced to get speed up. No harm doing some of the vr books if they like that type of thing from junior age. English, reading speed and vocab was key. Lots of 11 plus reading lists around - classics as there is old fashioned vocabulary on vr and English. Tutoring is not getting a weak child in but ensuring bright child has been taught all topics and basic exam techniques/timings e.g. don't leave any out. Some people say oh we didn't tutor we just did familiarisation papers but it is the same. With a younger child just ensure basics are strong e.g. Times tables and reading wide variety of books.

Mrskeats · 04/02/2017 11:17

No-one is saying it's essential.
I love how people present their opinions as if they are facts.

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