Experience of very small primary schools

[OnTheMove28]

Wondering if anyone here has experience of having their DCs at a very small primary school. For background, my DC is currently at a small village school - around 200 children in years R to 6. Class sizes are small (25ish), some mixed classes but Years 1 - 3 and year 6 are generally in single year group classes. It is also a church school but the intake is very local rather than faith based - so we have jewish, muslim and (I am sure) atheist parents. We are looking to relocate and one option would have us looking at even smaller village schools - say 100 pupils or less, so mixed year groups (1/2, 3/4, 5/6) in classes as small as 20. Very little specific info in Ofsted reports as the low numbers mean that publishing results compromises confidentiality. I can see pros and cons but would be interested to hear others' experiences.

It seems to be that everyone who likes a very small school likes the family atmosphere, knowing everyone and the child being known by all. Personally I like a school with better sport (and teams), a decent school orchestra, clubs and activities, lots of friendship opportunities and staff that do know the pupils, despite what small school advocates think! I hardly ever needed to see staff and did not expect to just walk in.

Around me, the small schools (they only go up to Y2 here) are chosen by parents who think their children are not capable of flourishing in a larger school, and these children are not very independent of their parents. The parents love going into school all the time - keeping eye on their child, running the PTA, listening to reading, making judgements about how well their child is doing, fretting if they seem a bit behind etc. I have also seen parents at small schools really gang up against parents of special needs children, especially if they have behaviour issues! And do not get me started on the child with Hepatitis! The parent was hounded out of the school and told to go to a larger school by the "we want to preserve our lovely (intolerant) village school brigade" and the Head. Parents at the larger schools just do not do this.

My DDs both did a residential in Y2. The children in my village who went to a smaller village school never had any opportunities like this. They did not even get to learn the recorder, let alone play in a recorder orchestra.

If you want "family and nurturing" atmosphere (code for not fostering independence) then go for a very small school. If you want more opportunities (and usually there are more) and social development, choose a bigger school. 150 is not that small for a through school. 70 would really worry me because the cohort in Y6 would be so small.

I am amused that a school of 100 pupils is classed as tiny. My DC went to a school with 30. A school that small I wouldn't recommend at all, there are no choices when it comes to friendship groups and teaching across 3 or 4 year groups is problematic. My DC now go to a school with 400 pupils and it is much better.

I think if the school has at least 4 classes as doesn't drop below that it would be okay, but anything smaller than that and I would be worried.

When did the desire and necessity for extra-curricular stuff at primary level come into fashion? Was wondering about this as we consider schools for DC starting in Sept and the availability of clubs (our local schools are also small/small-ish village schools with between 100 & 200 pupils)

When I was at primary (both state and private about a hundred years ago) there were no school-organised clubs. No extra-curricular sport, music. No book clubs or baking. Now it seems that it's a requirement...

strikethrough fail

Thanks everyone for all the comments - really useful. I can certainly relate to a lot of what you are saying as our school (like most around here), is around 60 children in R-Y2 and then move to a slightly bigger school in Y3. I can certainly relate to the lack of after-school clubs, difficult friendship groups and importance (or otherwise) of parental involvement. It is good to hear some positive stories though. I don't suppose you are in Cumbria wheredidallthejaffacakesgo ?

For those that say, "choose a bigger school", that would be fine if there was a choice - at the moment our village schools are taking children from the oversubscribed schools in the nearest town.

In that case then OnTheMove, the school's will grow. That could be beneficial in keeping them open. Several village schools I know of have "federated". One becomes infants and the other the junior. Works really well but travel is involved and people fought against it to begin with. A thriving set up now - 10 years on.

If you have no choice then that's it.

Regarding clubs and activities - parents go to work!!! Often these after school activities are a way that schools help their parents and benefit the community. Nothing wrong with sport, orchestra practice, drama, dance, art etc . Lots of parents appreciate schools that do this because such activities can be really pushed out in a normal school day. Also if you are in a rural school, going into a town for activities is a really big time commitment.

Breakfast club and after school clubs here and wind band in a school of around 100. Music provision is going to be influenced by whether you have a music service which we are lucky to do so here in Hampshire

In someways I think lack of choice can be a positive thing. You can acknowledge the positives and the negatives and then just get on with it without the agonising over whether you made the right choice

Yes, we have the federated thing here too and it works well. One issue our local villages face is that a lot of children go to village infants for R - Y2 then gradually leave for private schools from Y3 onwards so the numbers in any individual school can drop by up to 50% by Y6. I guess I was surprised to look at another rural area and see the federated/split site model not in place and a lot of very small schools teaching right through to Y6..

Very true Slightlyperturbedowl

My DC moved from an infant school with 320 pupils to one with fewer than 100. It was a great move. Small is good

We felt pure relief when we moved ds from a tiny village school to a much bigger town school.

The negatives of such a small claustrophobic school, lack of friendship opportunities and an extremely cliquey set of parents, which exacerbated the friendship issues, far outweighed the smaller class sizes. There's also been far more opportunities to do extra curricular activities, science clubs etc at larger primary, not to mention a lovely set of friends who get on and even if there are the odd time of friends falling out it doesn't last long as there's space to breath.

DS1 is at a school of 38, and it's absolutely brilliant. It's "twinned" with another small school (they share a head), and they seem to do loads of "in house" training; teachers flip between schools regularly as they get promoted, or need to expand various areas of expertise. A couple of the school's TAs are now training to be teachers.

The ethos is totally "child centred"; the staff have been sent on loads of trips to places like Denmark to find out what schools are doing there, and have brought lots of ideas back.

There is a v. high proportion of kids with SENs; this is partly because the other, bigger, local school is legendarily shite with SN kids, so a lot of parents have pulled their kids out and sent them here instead. They report brilliant progress- "totally different child" is a common refrain. But all the kids- SN or no- seem to muck in and get on with each other.

There was a snap OFSTED short inspection last week , and some of us got asked to go and talk to the inspector. Not a negative thing was said, and apparently the staff are "very happy" with the result, but aren't allowed to tell us yet! (it already has a "good" rating).

My three dc went to a village primary with fifty children and it was lovely. Small is good

I went to a primary of 90ish.
14 girls and 6 boys in my year but we were in composite classes except for the first and last years and shared a playground so mixed up a lot. Loads of us had very close friends in the year below or above.
It wasn't a problem. The village could be a bit stifling and I now live in a city but there's a lot more behind that than primary school size.

Socially I would caution against moving a child to a very small school a few years in. Having been that child, it's very hard to break into existing friendship groups when there may be only two or three other 'peers'. I became girl number three in my year group, which just exacerbated the usual female friendship group issues.

Transfer to a large 1000 + secondary was fine on the other hand - I couldn't wait to leave and loved the fact that there were loads of options for people to be friends with!

Actually, having seen all these "my DS only had X amount of boys to be firends with", "my DD didn't get on with the only 4 girls in her year" posts highlights one plus point, in my opinion: There are 5 kids in DS1's year (when he started in Reception he was the only one that year!). His BFF is a girl. He has as many female friends as male, and plenty from the years above/ below. Would he have been under more pressure to only have friends who are boys if he went to a school with more potential friends to choose from? No way of knowing, but I'm glad it's the way it is .

Children will be friends with who they get on with - girls or boys. I don't buy the idea of pressure in a bigger school! You have so many children around it opens up lots of friendship opportunities. What is wrong with being friends with other boys anyway? Lots of young children make friends with the same sex if they don't gel with the opposite sex. It just depends who is in the class at a particular time. You will never know if he would have preferred more boys!

I think where I live , parents actively travel to the small village schools. They are not always the best schools. They also have spaces!!!

Ofsted inspections are never telegraphed!!! They are always 'snap'. The vast majority of primary schools are good or better - big or small. Inspectors don't look at friendship opportunities or sports teams.

DDs school has just over 100, including pre school, all taught in seperate year groups, her class has 14, teaching wise it's lovely, sports wise there are lots of small school tournaments (mixed age groups and 5 a side teams)

The big issue we've found is her class is very much split into two quite tight friendship groups and she doesn't really fit either, it's not that the other children are mean to her or anything, they all get on with DD, just that one groups very sporty and the other are really into dancing and princesses and DD isn't into either thankfully there is another girl like DD and they are inseperable but I think in a bigger school there'd be more chance of them finding a few more friends.

I hope the inseparable friend does not move away. Children can feel bereaved if this happens. Again it is more of a small school problem.