school is taking advantage of it's position

[ClaudiaApfelstrudel]

AIBU to think that my daughters primary school is taking advantage of it's position.

They are constantly asking for money, for example 'wear what you like day' they have to bring in £1 each (I have two daughters) just so they can wear non-uniform. I once forgot to pay and the teacher wrote the names of children who hadn't paid names on the board!

Other things too, when they go on school trips the costs for the transportation are always far higher than one would expect and I know they are extracting profits from them.

Now they have a trip to see the concert which is another £15 each so £30 which I feel is not educational at all and again, you can actually buy cheaper tickets direct from the playhouse itself.

Everytime I feel under obligation to pay or my children will be singled out whereas the school has no authority to do this at all and I feel it's abusing it's position.

Every week our school pays £105 to take 28 children to the swimming pool and back for a 45 minute session. The pool is exactly 3.5 miles away. The school is paying for the lesson, but we have had to ask the parents to pay for the coach.

I have also just paid for 2 coaches to take 62 children to an outdoor adventure centre that is an hour away next summer. Cost? £700.

Your £15 for a coach and entrance is fucking fantastic value for money.

"So for instance we keep being told about the amount of funding that schools have lost. In primary schools this is simply not true, the level of funding in the current year is the same as it was last year for each pupil, as is the level of pupil premium. Secondaries with 6th forms will have lost funding but not all. "

So the accountants in the finance meeting who said school budgets were receiving a negative funding increase (decrease) of many thousands were lying? The money we've available is certainly less than previous years.

As I'm sure you're aware the £2000 ish per pupil per year primaries receive is a drop in the ocean of actual costs

Maybe OP you could give some advice to the schools who are 'not managing their budgets properly' on how they can better stretch what they get. This map might help you find a school to start with, in time for proposed budget cuts in four years:

www.schoolcuts.org.uk/#/schools

The figures quoted in schoolcuts are estimates of the extra costs of inflation, pay increases, NI increases over the next 4 years. They are not actual cuts in funding but schools will receive no extra funding over what they have received this year, providing they have the same number of pupils. Less pupils = less funding

The minimum funding guarantee for 16/17 is -1.5% (compared to 15/16), so yes some schools will have smaller budgets.

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/schools-revenue-funding-settlement-for-2016-to-2017

I know this particular school is in receipt of pupil premiums for children that it does not spend the money on, giving them 'extra classes' that actually aren't extra at all and are just being taught by teachers who should be preparing lessons.

If the classes are happening, they are extra classes irrespective of who is teaching them. Since those teachers' lessons are undoubtedly being prepared, the likelihood is that the school uses the pupil premium to pay for cover to enable them to have non-contact periods at other times. For instance, at my DC's school they have a contract with outside providers to run much of the school's PE and sports which frees the teachers up for lesson planning at those times, which in turn leaves them available to take extra catch-up classes etc at other times.

So a school gross budget this year that is less than the gross budget two years ago isn't a cut? Add to that increases in NI apprentice tax etc etc the net budget is shrinking year on year.

Schools don't have to spend pupil premium on extra lessons ...it can be used in many ways https://www.theguardian.com/teacher-network/teacher-blog/2014/jul/22/how-schools-spend-pupil-premium

How about schools putting a break down of costs on the letters home then parents will have an idea of costs of a coach for each trip.

We normally tell parents the cost per pupil and the amount that is being subsidised by the school.

If you really believe any of what you have said is true then I suggest writing to the school and governors and/or moving schools.

Personally I think you are being totally ureasonable and have no real clue about the costs to run a school and how funding such as pupil premium is required to be used & is used...

Where I teach (taught) coaches were £300 EACH! We abandoned a trip to a castle because we needed two coaches and entrance would have meant £20 each per child and being in a poverished area (and with parents being abusive when their kids were 10 minutes late getting back from a pantomime that was at no cost to them - paid for by the PTA) we abandoned the idea.

What spotty top said.

You are woefully ignorant of how school finances work. If you had a genuine concern you would raise it at the school.

So a school gross budget this year that is less than the gross budget two years ago isn't a cut

To clarify the funding situation...

Every LA is receiving at least as much funding this year in cash terms as it did last year. Most are receiving an increase, although some of the increases are very small.

Some LAs are receiving less funding per pupil this year than they did last. In most cases the difference is just a few pence per pupil. Tower Hamlets is the biggest loser with a reduction of £24.80 per pupil. Only one other LA (Slough) is losing more than £10 per pupil. To give some context for this, Tower Hamlets is one of the best funded LAs in the country, receiving around £7,000 per pupil. Most LAs receive £4,000-£5,000 per pupil.

Some LAs have changed their funding formula. That inevitably creates winners and losers. Therefore, even if an LA is receiving more funding per pupil it does not necessarily mean that all schools are seeing an increase. Indeed, if the LA is deducting more for central services, all schools may see a decrease. The vast bulk of a school's budget is protected by a Minimum Funding Guarantee. This means that funding per pupil for the protected elements will not go down by more than 1.5% per pupil.

It is certainly the case that some campaigners will talk about cuts when what they mean is that funding hasn't increased, or that it hasn't increased by as much as they think it should. However, it is also true that some schools are seeing genuine cuts to their budgets.

I know this particular school is in receipt of pupil premiums for children that it does not spend the money on, giving them 'extra classes' that actually aren't extra at all and are just being taught by teachers who should be preparing lessons.

OP, how on earth do you 'know' this? If you do, then you should bring it up with the governors instead of starting goady threads on MN.

shouldn't be expecting parents to fork out, especially for things that are not remotely educational.

Everything can be educational at primary age. You don't think going to a concert is educational?

Mufti days will be to raise money for a charity. £1 is standard.

when they go on school trips the costs for the transportation are always far higher than one would expect and I know they are extracting profits from them.

You do, do you? How do you know that? Again, go to the governors if you seriously think this.

You are bonkers. How much do you think it costs to hire a bus?? Why don't you ring up some coach companies and get a quote? Some other posters have given you costs above.

OP, schools are not allowed to make a profit from trips. And you sound like a nightmare parent, by the way, always whingeing about the school with no justifiable cause.

OP- you're talking absolute nonsense!

OP you sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist.

Having children costs money.

Non of those costs sound unreasonable. If you really can't spare the money (ie it would use up money for essentials) approach the school with your situation, otherwise pay or choose that your kids will not do these activities.

State education is free, but bonus activities that are extracurricular clearly cannot always be. Be thankful your children get a rounded education for free, in many other countries you would be paying for school or getting a very limited amount of education.

Well I've taken on board some of the criticisms directed at me on this thread, some of the more personal attacks - well they say more about the person saying them than anything else.

The point of the thread, hence the title, was whether a primary school has a moral 'right' to demand money from parents on a regular basis to fund it's intentions (whatever they may be). I do not believe this is the case, and my mind has not been changed.

The tangent about the pupil premium - it is worth baring in mind that 'pupil' premium is just that. It's designed for pupils NOT schools. It should be spent then, on that particular pupil and not for the 'greater good' of the school seems to me.

I'm not a particularly rich person and I can't keep forking money out on every whim that the school takes. My two are leaving at the end of this year thanks god - I'm tired of having to find money so that my children are not singled out for not having paid something that they have no obligation to pay whatsoever.

I can't keep forking money out on every whim that the school takes.

Then don't, it's not compulsory

and if I don't pay, my children are singled out. As I have repeated over, and over and over again...

The profit that they're making-where is it going to OP?

Yeah that's generally what happens when you don't pay for trips/events which actually need paying for but that shouldn't be a problem really since you're convinced the schools fleecing parents anyway.

Will you be reporting them to the governors? Do keep us updated if so!

I know this particular school is in receipt of pupil premiums for children that it does not spend the money on, giving them 'extra classes' that actually aren't extra at all and are just being taught by teachers who should be preparing lessons.

Please tell us how you know all of this along with the ins and outs of the schools budgets and spending.