How do you use the non-phonic ORT books?

[Purplelooby]

Just that really! As my son's reading improves they are sending him one phonic and one normal reading book (mostly but not exclusively ORT). With the second type - do you read it first to them or what? The Biff, Chip and Kipper non-phonic ones seem to contain a lot of words that aren't in the top 100 most frequent and aren't decodable which I'm guessing is on purpose. So far he's figured it out by context or by the pattern of the book - is this how it goes?

Ha ha yes I know some of those. I suppose my husband and I could be those but we've very much embraced phonics because it's nice and logical like we are!

No there isn't any advantage over explicit teaching. In fact systematic teaching has the benefit of ensuring that everything is covered and nothing missed.

Thank you so much everybody for your long and detailed responses, I am extremely grateful. I'm going to stick to phonic books only and tackle the trickies (I've been sent a list for over the holidays) in the way you outlined n a previous post. I also realise that he is enjoying the BC and K book more because he can read it more lazily, so they're hidden back away and his Songbird phonics collection is hanging around the living room for when he feels like it.

I hope it's ok to add two new questions...

1. Once he recognises a word that he has learnt phonetically, is that fine? E.g. and, went, in, it. Should they be made to spell it each time or do they just read it however they feel, so long as they haven't been taught it as a whole word?
2. Like most kids, my son is memorising the reading book after a couple of reads. I remember reading somewhere that it is fine, actually good, for very young kids to read books many times and even to pretend to read once they have memorised it. Is this true or does it contradict learning by systematic phonics (by encouraging sight recognition rather than fast decoding in their heads).

And again massive thanks in advance.

By the way, there should be a MN 'learning to read' guide written with all this information - I can't believe how helpful it has been!

Once he recognises a word that he has learnt phonetically, is that fine? E.g. and, went, in, it. Should they be made to spell it each time

No, they shouldn't have to sound it out each time if they can readi it straight off. The end result of sounding and blending a word is that after a number of repetitons (varying from 1 to 100s, depending on child) the word is secured in long term memory and is read 'on sight' (just like grownups do )

No benefit at all in reading a book so often that it is memorised (unless it is a very favourite book that is frequently re-read for pleasure; like, I must have read all Jane Austen's novels 20 or 30 times by now...) It is not fine, or good, or anything you might have heard. Two readings maximum I should think, once to identify the words, twice for fluency. (Though if primary phonics colleagues can convince me otherwise I'll have to eat my words!)
Personally, as a child I would have found even two readings excruciatingly boring. What a waste of time when you could be reading new books...

So not 7 reads then?? This might be why they are sending him the phonic and non-phonic books: to pad out his book number so that he isn't memorising each one (I am quite detailed in updating his reading record and he reads almost every day).

I'm relieved by your response about the long-term memory - thanks. So do it all phonetically and they'll commit many to memory as well as learning to decode in their heads.
Thank you xx

Once for identifying the words, and maybe once for fluency works for me maizie. No idea why it would be necessary to do more than that.

Children reciting well known books by heart is an important part of reading/storytelling/writing. It can help with understanding story structure, language patterns and vocabulary. But there are thousands of well written and well loved childrens books that you can share together. I'm not sure early level reading books (look and say or phonics) really add anything important to this aspect of reading and writing.

"Personally, as a child I would have found even two readings excruciatingly boring. What a waste of time when you could be reading new books."

I agree unfortunately the new curriculum says pupils should re read scheme books to develop fluency and some take it to extremes. I'm still hearing "have you learnt your book?" not "have you read your book?"

Totally agree. I'm not sure it means rereading scheme books - it's not very clear. I was hoping it referred to shared stories, which the new curriculum is also v keen on.

I take it as books they can read ...we read once in school and once at home

Yes, you're right, mrz - there's no mistaking 'these'.

Thanks all again. We're probably ending up reading about 3 times before he reads again. BUT that's because he has two books... one of which is the evil look and say book. Annoyingly he finds most of the phonics books dismal, but loves the BC and K ones (some of which have been their phonics books and some the Say and See).