Would you move him to private if you were me?

[ShouldImovehim]

Name changed for this thread.

I have a year 2 boy, very easy going, on the quiet side, has a good friend in his class which is similar to him and whom he plays with most of the time. He was late summer born (just turned 6), top in math last year and among top 5 in English. Outside school he is learning to swim (not showing any sporting talent at this point) and preparing for grade 1 for a musical instrument (suggested by the teacher, not me). He is not a child genius but reasonably bright. DH and I can help him with maths/science till A levels but English is not our first language so a bit limited there.

Since the beginning of the school year I have been thinking about getting him to do 7 plus for a private 7 to 18 school which is academically rigourous. I don't actually agree with private primary education, tutoring at young age etc, I much prefer him to spend his primary years with children from wider background but I do have the money to pay (very very reluctantly though).

I was very happy with his current two form state primary for the reception year but I am worried that the gap between the education he is receiving and that his private school peers is getting will rapidly widen. One week after school started I have received no reading books, no homework, no curriculum or newsletters, not even notification of when PE day is. His class will not get any time from specialist PE or music teacher. He had spent significant time every morning to do silent reading from ungraded picture books chosen from the box on table. No indication of any differentiation in work yet. It is early days I know but there is definitely no feeling of everything hitting the ground running and I am feeling unsure. It is acceptable for reception year and year 1 in my opinion but not so great for year 2.

Long waiting list at other local outstanding state primary schools, we won't get in.

See, the school is not dire but isn't it not good enough? Am I being ridiculously picky or should I aim for something better for my son? Will I regret it if I don't try at 7 when the private school has a bigger intake?

I hope someone with experience or hindsight can enlighten me.

How do you know he is falling behind his peers? Just interested.

Believe I don't think he is behind at this point, they are still very young. But I think in a few years time he may well be. Even if he is not behind at the end of KS2, possibly through parental input, I don't think he would have learned as much as he could have if he is in a more organised and aspirational school (not necessarily a private school). I just want his school day to be utilized as fully as possible.

I kind of know what you mean but every now and then check myself. Ds is also in year 2. He doesn't however like formal education so we supplement it ourselves in other ways.

do you know any parents at the private school? Have a chat with them to find out what they like and if they'll tell you, what they don't like. To get a good idea as to whether the switch is the right one.

I've learnt that parents tend to be quite positive about schools when talking to other parents who don't have their children at the same school even if they're not 100% happy!

Thanks Believe you are definitely right in talking to parents at the private. I don't know anyone directly so may have to be friend of a friend. I have been avoid doing it (I am quite shy in real life!) as we weren't set on taking the exam but yes I should try to arrange that. More information can't hurt!

How did the school do in their ks2 sats? And KS1 sat. Our school.has a no hmwk policy till year 3. Just reading and spelling before then. Then hmwk is a topic and create what you would like eg poster etc. Year 6 had formal hmwk from Feb half term for sats practice. Still enjoyes full music lessons, perhaps and games, computing, art science etc Where other schools stopped all but English and Maths.
Yet they still has 84%pass including sen children.
Yes academic is important but so is learning to be fun and enjoyable and learning to mix with all abilities and social backgrounds.
How many of the private children are managed out in year 8 and 9 when stats don't count as progression into year 7?

OP,from your description, if you have enough money, then just move your DS to the private school, it seems the private school will offer your DS more academic challenge.

If you can't easily pay the money, then you may wait to go private on secondary. As long as your DS is happy at the current school, you can do a bit extra after school to make up. No need much, read books every day, occasionally doing math or English for 10 minutes. Then from Y5, you can start to let him do the practice for secondary entry test. This should be enough.

Don't worry too much about the gap between your DS and the kids from private school. Like my DS1, his private secondary school, out of 8 scholars that year, 6 are from state primary, despite 2/3 of the students are from private primary school. DS1 was from a state primary( a good one but fell into failing school the year he left), he has been winning the fisrt prize in his class every year from Y7.

i agree with autumn, i'd probably move my DS in your shoes and think about whether to try and get away with just secondary or do now. i find it very hard to get any sense of how dd is doing (second year at primary school), we're (Scotland) now 4 weeks in and I've got no clue how they're doing and she's at a state primary with a good reputation.

Ours is like lacebell. No home work in ks1 except reading books. Loads of music and sport and still a very very high performing state school incl SEN and pupil premium children and DC with ESL

But no point moving from a mediocre state school to private unless you are sure it's better and offers exactly what you want. You could look at other state schools too. There are several in our area that are very creative and exciting types of schools.

lace smelly my DS school's result was great for the two years before DS started, since then it has been in line with or slightly above average. It is hard to tell for 2016 because the SATs was changed so much so won't really know until more data is published by DoE. I guess if the school has consistently performed well academically OR teach a broader curriculum well I would not think about going.

Autumn Good to hear that your DS is doing great! State primary then possibly private secondary was my original plan, but unfortunately I don't feel confident enough to stop thinking about other options until year 6!

Munch it is very hard to tell how the children are doing. Maybe the KS1 SAT scores for us will be the first quantitative measure of things. The children in DS school do termly assessment in theory, but the results have never been communicated to me and I am a bit too shy to ask!

Why are you too shy to ask? If you want your ds to do well then you'll need to speak up at times and this might be one of those times. Just practice what you want to say and it'll be easy.

Meanwhile wait for a week or two and have a chat with the class teacher and see what her plan is for the year

? her plan for the year is going to be hundreds if not thousands of pages long, and she is not going to reel it all off to you in a "chat". You don't seem to have any grasp what so ever of what goes on in a school, or what a teacher's job is! Your son is happy settled and progressing, but you want him in private school because of the "gap" ( there is no gap!) that he will find harder to bridge later when private school children are further ahead ( private school children aren't further ahead)

If you want him in private school go ahead! but don't pretend it is against your principles, or due to poor state schooling- it clearly is very much in line with your principles

So I'll tell you a little story. In year 8 my DD had a boy join her comp from a v v prestigious local prep school. The young lad came in and apologised to the class as he told them he would be so far ahead of them in maths and they could ask him any questions if they were stuck. His dad had told him that prep schools were 2 years ahead of state and he would have to be patient with his classmates !! Anyhow (sure you know where this is going), 2 weeks later poor lad is in tears as he was shocked that the class were exactly where he was and had done exactly the same work at the same standard. And some of them were - shock horror - better than him, despite their state primary education. Thankfully the kids are all lovely and found it funny and he became a much loved class mate. But I suspect private schools have to say they are ahead of state as otherwise what are you paying for (OK, the golf course is a bit of a draw !!!). So I really wouldn't worry - they all sit the sane exams, mostly in the same year. Education is easier if you're happy.

Oh blah - threads like this always descend into people saying private schools aren't ahead, etc etc.

Many state primaries are fantastic, some aren't, the same is true of preps.

If you feel the prep would suit your son and you can afford it, then go for it.

I moved my dc1 to a private prep from an OK, not amazing (sounds better than yours though) primary at 7 and it transformed her - she is thriving in every way possible. She was doing fine at the primary, but the prep has brought out the best in her, academically, socially, extracurricularly. It was the best decision I ever made. Good luck.

I had this situation and did move ds in y2 It's only been 2 terms, but he's just so much happier. Expectations are higher, especially in terms of personal responsibility for their work and belongings and these are made clear and provided (as a list!) to parents. I'm not sure if the work is harder, as I never knew much about what he was doing at his state infants... Well that's not entirely true, we did get the curriculum letter, which covered stuff he mainly knew and in the last term for history they were learning about Samuel Peeps. - Hopefully learning how to spell his name, if nothing else?

Homework at his state school was 'make a... ' constantly, whereas now it's targeted in each subject for what he's studied that day, so i really feel like I'm aware of what he's up to.

At the private school it feels like not a moment is wasted, time and lessons are very structured. Perhaps this could be a problem if kids need more help or can't keep up? But my ds is loving it. They also do lots of relevant school trips, which is lovely.

Oh and yes, specialist teaching for ict, pe, music, art and French. Esp in pe this really makes a difference, as they will he learning rugby, football and cricket, as well as swimming, gym and athletics. It compares well to the endless 'ball skills' at the old school, which never seemed to achieve much!

Its not perfect, the fees are a worry - esp what happens after prep (fingers crossed grammar schools are sorted by then!) but having worried about ds and school and his lack of progress/challenge / happiness for 2.5 years I really wish we'd moved earlier.

We've just gone through a similar dilemma for our boys. They have definitely been struggling with Maths and every time I approached the school about it, was told 'they were where they were expected to be'.

As far as the school concerned they were doing ok, which wasn't what we were seeing at home. To say it's been frustrating and worrying is an understatement.

We did look at private school, but the issue for us was what would we do in 3yrs time when it was time for secondary (just started yr 4). Fees for private secondaries were just not feasible (paying for 2 at the same time).

Leaving things as they were, wasn't an option...so in the end...we are now looking to get them some extra help outside of school, just to support their learning....not looking to push them for 11+ or anything, it's purely for us, been about giving them the support they need. I'd much rather the school did this, rather than us having to look for solutions outside of the school.

I'd say go with your gut feel, as a parent you know your child best.

I will try to prepare him in a low key way and see if he passes the 7 plus to the school I like, and then go from there. I am interested in this one school as it is academically focused and I had a good impression of the teachers. They came across sensible and interested in delivering good teaching and further improve it. There are other privates in the area but at this stage I don't think what they offer matches what DS needs, so I won't consider them.

I guess no one can see into the future to tell how things will pan out for DS, but one comment above struck a chord. "At the private school it feels like not a moment is wasted." That is exactly what I want to see, state or private, I want to see a sense of urgency and energy in the SLT and the teachers, and not the complacency of "don't worry, things will happen at some point", "the able kids will be fine" etc etc.

I know that there are very talented kids in state schools, my DH was one, but he has very strong work ethics, and he is the kind of person who cannot be easily swayed. We are both lower middle class academic kids made good, so believe me sending my children to a privileged environment does worries me in a different way, but that's another topic I guess!

Definitely prepare him and if he passes great, if not then he'll still know more than he would have otherwise.

I'd suggest looking at schools at least twice. I saw 1 school that on the open day seemed to offer everything I wanted... Then when I went back on a regular day it was definitely not as good. You do have to be aware that there is a certain amount of 'sales pitch' - esp from the slt who would like your money, and they may tell you what you want to hear.

Talk to parents if you can and also really look at the kids in class. Are they paying attention and looking happy/motivated? What are the wall displays like? Ask to see some of the children's work books too. (looking at these for the relevant year will let you know how your son's work compares!)

Overall I think you'll get a gut feeling and you should go with that.

Goblin little owl
We have specialist French, PE ,Music and Drama teachers in our primary school...from reception! We are in a deprived area, and a local authority Primary.

Jamdonut. That reflects schools near us too. The more I look at the OP and all our local schools, either her school is dreadful, or she doesn't know what goes on inside it and it's more like most schools, or her mind is made up. All our local schools have really fun and creative learning methods compared to what would have been normal a few years ago

All our local schools have really fun and creative learning methods compared to what would have been normal a few years ago

I do have a bit of an issue with this. "fun and creative learning" is no real substitute for learning about the pride and satisfaction that comes from really applying yourself to something difficult. Of course, there is a balance to be struck, but the "fun and creative" classrooms often fail to develop self discipline, tenacity or a solid work ethic, and this is the downfall of many state pupils, and a reason many choose to go private.

honestly if you can afford it, move him.

Longlost that may be the case. The good ones still get outstanding results however and score very high on value added scores. Like ours. Creative and fun does not have to mean wishy washy lack of academic focus.