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Original poster

Faith schools to become MORE selective ...

280 replies

jailhouserock · 11/09/2016 22:14

See the original thread in the In the News section for details, but the Gvt is planning to remove the 50% faith admissions cap on new faith academies.

OP posts:
user1471734618 · 13/09/2016 11:46

t4nut you have been brainwashed as well

t4nut · 13/09/2016 11:54

Have I indeed? How so. I suggest you read where I've said above I'm not of the faith but respect people's right to hold a faith and select a school based on it. I even accept your right to be prejudiced.

ArcheryAnnie · 14/09/2016 18:58

Returning to this thread to find myself called a liar. The form they refused to give me was the SIF.

The school in question has ten categories of entry. Failure to return a SIF means they place your application in the tenth, lowest-priority category. The school is heavily oversubscribed, and for some years now no children have been admitted beyond category 3. (This incidentally also excludes non-Catholic looked-after children, who rank way below lots of other categories.)

So yes, I could have listed it on the common admittance form, in the same way that I could have listed, I dunno, Starfleet Academy on the admissions form, because in both cases there is zero possibility of my child having any chance of attending that educational establishment. Zero.

t4nut · 14/09/2016 20:35

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ArcheryAnnie · 14/09/2016 22:16

t4nut I was prevented from applying because they did not and would not give me a SIF. Without a SIF there is absolutely no point in listing this school on the CAF.

What part of this do you find difficult to understand?

t4nut · 14/09/2016 22:36

No they asked if you were catholic, then told you you didn't need the form.

Again, and try not to be do evasive, if you are not catholic why did you need the Sif?

prh47bridge · 14/09/2016 22:50

I was prevented from applying because they did not and would not give me a SIF

No you were not. You did not need the SIF to apply. As you are not a Catholic completing the SIF would not have served any purpose. From the sounds of it you would not have got a place if you had applied. But you were not prevented from applying. Indeed, you admit that you could have listed the school as one of your preferences on the CAF.

The SIF would only have served a purpose if it got you into one of the categories for Catholic children. The categories for non-Catholic children would be decided based on information on the LA's form.

There may have been no point in applying but that is not the same as the school preventing you from applying.

MNHQ
FlissMumsnet · 14/09/2016 22:53

Sorry to intrude but can we make a polite plea for peace & love Flowers

t4nut · 14/09/2016 23:05

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ArcheryAnnie · 14/09/2016 23:14

No they asked if you were catholic, then told you you didn't need the form.

...you were there, were you, t4nut? Because they didn't tell me I didn't need the form, they refused to give me a form.

ArcheryAnnie · 14/09/2016 23:17

prh47bridge since you appear to exist only in the realm of the bureaucratic, where actual real-world things don't matter, I think it's probably best if I ignore your contributions in future.

t4nut · 14/09/2016 23:25

Did they ask if you were catholic? Did you say no? Then they dont need to give you a form that you can't fill in, you just use the form you can fill in (and once we got past the untruths) did fill in but didn't quite manage to write the name if the school.

No one prevented you from doing anything no matter how hard you try to twist the truth.

prh47bridge · 14/09/2016 23:28

since you appear to exist only in the realm of the bureaucratic, where actual real-world things don't matter

No, I live in the real world. You have admitted that you could have named the school on the LA's form. That means you were allowed to apply. Not having any realistic chance of getting a place is not the same as not being allowed to apply. If you were not allowed to apply you would not have got a place even if the school was half empty.

SuburbanRhonda · 14/09/2016 23:51

What is the matter with you two, t4nut and prh47?

You're both behaving like classroom bullies. Even if you both know what should have happened if admissions policy had been adhered to, neither of you were there so neither of you can say whether archery was given incorrect information. Ffs.

t4nut · 15/09/2016 07:34

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BertrandRussell · 15/09/2016 07:55

It doesnMt actually matter who told whet story to who.

The fact of the matter is that if you live in a village with two schools, one faith, one not, a faith family has a potential choice of two tax payer funded schools, a non faith family has a potential "choice" of one.

Original poster
jailhouserock · 15/09/2016 08:04

As prh will know as he follows adjudications, many faith schools don't make it clear in their admissions policy that a SIF is not required to apply. Some specifically state that it is required (and are corrected by the adjudicator if anyone complains). So I can certainly believe that the school administrator refused to hand out the form and gave the impression an application wasn't possible (probably with the reasonable intention of making sure the parent didn't waste the preference but used it for a school where she had more chance of a place).

Like someone else said, the real world isn't as black and white as admissions law.

OP posts:
SuburbanRhonda · 15/09/2016 08:11

Her story has changed the more it was questioned. It was deliberately misleading and I still don't believe chunks of it.

Whether you choose to believe it or not is entirely up to you.

It's your badgering and bullying that is the problem. And before you tell me to report it, I already have.

t4nut · 15/09/2016 08:34

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Original poster
jailhouserock · 15/09/2016 08:45

which in this hypothetical village with 2(!) primary schools and an probable available intake each of 10 kids is highly likely.

No it isn't. You repeatedly ignore the fact that surplus places are being systematically reduced to zero across the country to save money. Your area may not be affected badly yet. Other areas have been feeling the pressure for many years.

There are many anecdotal examples of Bertrand's hypothetical village on Mumsnet. What happens is that non-practicing villagers lose out to practising Christians in the nearest local town who like the idea of a small rural faith school for their child. The villagers then can't get into their village schools and have to travel to the town. Clearly a mad situation.

OP posts:
t4nut · 15/09/2016 09:00

And a hypothetical one, like your planet mongo example.....

prh47bridge · 15/09/2016 09:10

neither of you were there so neither of you can say whether archery was given incorrect information

She may well have been given incorrect information. I have not denied that. However, in her post at 18:58 yesterday she admitted that she could have listed this school as one of her preferences. So she has said she could have applied yet still states that she was prevented from applying for a place. All I am doing is trying to make her understand that she was not prevented from applying. Not qualifying for a place is not the same as being prevented from applying. If she had named the school as one of her preferences and it had been a freak year with very few applicants she could have got a place.

She says that, due to the school not giving her an SIF, her child would have been in the lowest category for admissions. If that is correct, even if the school had given her an SIF and she had submitted it her child would still have been in the lowest category. The sole function of the SIF is to determine whether an applicant qualifies for the categories for Catholic children. As she is not Catholic her child would not have qualified. It appears she did not understand that which is why I have been trying to explain it to her.

Note that I have never accused her of lying. I have been happy to accept that she was mistaken. I'm sorry you think I am behaving like a classroom bully for trying to explain to her that she could have applied.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/09/2016 09:12

I'm sorry calling someone out on untruths is badgering? Really?

Not if you point it out just once and admit that, as you weren't there, you actually have no way of knowing what was said by the school.

But banging on about it over several pages and calling the poster a liar is badgering. MNHQ agrees and even you admitted yourself upthread that you were probably badgering.

SuburbanRhonda · 15/09/2016 09:13

Apology accepted, prh47bridge.

Sleepybeanbump · 15/09/2016 09:13

Faith schools (state funded ones ayway) are abhorrently discriminatory IMO. As an atheist I find it absolutely baffling that I couldn't refuse to hire someone on religious grounds but yet religious people can discriminate against my child in school selection.

Talk about having your cake and eating it!