teachers spike 4 days / 1 day....awful???

[yodachronicles]

I've known about this for ages but with Monday the first day of term...I'm starting to worry about the effects of having 2 teachers, 1 for 4 days and 1 for the remaining day (Monday) - feel like the Monday will be a non starter day and the week will start fully on Tuesday.

Any advice or people who have experienced this?

I work a Monday job share, this will be the 4th year, it works brilliantly. Main teacher plans all week, although I realise this is unusual. I definitely start the week, she carries on. I do one extra day somewhere else and supply throughout the school on any days I have free.
I know the school, know the children and am a fully engaged member of staff but many parents think I just do one day.

No problem at all.
We had this last year. Teacher's planned together and Monday teacher did some stand alone topics for English and Maths and covered smaller subjects in the afternoon that were just once a week. Yes, potentially you could have three adults. We did last year as I took them for an afternoon teaching two subjects and supported some lessons in the morning.There wasn't a problem at all. The children adapted really well. We all planned and kept each other up to speed at lunchtimes or after school. Several teachers will cover a whole day or PPA cover in school. I wouldn't worry and I think the children rather liked it.

Teachers have always had planning time, why do you suddenly think it's going to be a problem now? They also have other teachers for things like PW, or music, or something. Kids go off to other teacher for a while, their regular teacher gets planning time. It happened while you were at school and you obviously didn't even notice/remember.

I teach FT, in a middle school, but use Monday lessons as a 'get the business done' type class - set up homework for the week, do grammar & vocab type thing. No idea why you think Monday is 'warming up' day - that's not how teaching works. Kids don't give you that luxury.

Yes - if the regular teacher's actual days are Tue-Fri then they are very likely getting a half day PPA in addition to not working Monday. In other words, out of class for 3.5 days. This is happening in my middle son's Year Two class - his teacher doesn't work Wednesdays so they have another teacher that day. She also has half a day of PPA so their TA takes them for Thursday afternoon. In reality that's three teachers.

Even worse in my older son's Year Five class. Two teachers to begin with (one Mon-Tue, the other Wed-Fri) but each also has planning time! I think that is bonkers.

My school has shared classes sussed: if two teachers share one will do three full days and the other two full days. Less disruption for the children.

I work Mon-Thu but not Fri. I've organised it so that I plan at home so am actually in class for the four whole days I'm there. Therefore I'm only out of class the same as NQTs and TLs. I couldn't do it otherwise and leave the chn with three teachers.

And I know what you mean about Monday being important - in our school it does set up the week's learning.

But the success of job sharing / multiple teachers all depends on the teachers, the timetable, the children, the year group, the school. Lots of factors. It could be better than having one teacher if that one teacher is rubbish / mean / off sick a lot.

Just see how things go and try not to worry.

"I'm a teacher. All teachers (working full time) are entitled to half a day out of class for planning"

Not true teachers are entitled to 10% of their teaching time for planning. For a teacher working full time thus equates to roughly half a day per week for a teacher working one day roughly half an hour.

I suspect that the main teacher (4days) is either a NQT or a senior leader who are entitled to additional time and the Monday teacher is covering this time.

It isn't a problem having three teachers: how do you imagine secondary schools work? In my children's school they had a contract with a specialist organisation who took the children for PE and games, and there was also a French teacher who helped to cover planning time. So although that meant there were at least two more teachers working with the children, it meant that they got the chance to have specialists in particular subjects.

Even three teachers can work fine.

Job share for the main bulk. Then PPA cover for a small amount.

We have a few situations like this. I do PPA cover so in often the third teacher in with them (or second when no job share.) I teach something entirely swore are and focus in one area of the curriculum. So most of the children see my as the subject teacher and not the PPA cover teacher. Even in EYFS I'm a subject specific teacher for them.

Yes, I agree or like last year a teacher with a family who only wanted to do four days and was matched with another who does three days. We have an understanding boss and those teachers having families and wanting to spend some time with their young family can work split weeks. It is much better than having to lose experienced, quality staff.

I have covered a day for an NQT too. I have also covered a day for SMT (Deputy Head) and last year three afternoons for different classes. I think the children actually quite like the variety and you can use staff expertise to teach different subjects.

Yes mrz if full time then teachers get 10% PPA which is more of less half a day out of class which is what they get and which is what I said.

Teachers have always had planning time, why do you suddenly think it's going to be a problem now? They also have other teachers for things like PW, or music, or something. Kids go off to other teacher for a while, their regular teacher gets planning time. It happened while you were at school and you obviously didn't even notice/remember.

I agree we get planning time now but ppa during school time (rather than doing it after school like we used to) is a 'relatively' new thing- I'm pretty sure it wasn't an entitlement for the first 6 years after I qualified (97). When I was a child-(south east in the 80s), our class teachers did teach us everything- PE, music, library time, computing and even swimming- they just stood in the pool with us!! Not sure how common that was though.

You might think it is odd, OP, but the children tend to just get on with it! This is not an unusual situation, and schools seem to have more "in house" supply cover, so the children are taught by a familiar teacher.
At our primary, the children also get used to a French teacher, a music teacher, and a Games teacher.

DS had this last year & it wasn't great. I didn't really realize how bad til the end of the year though

Looking back I would ask who is doing what & get them to explain to you how it will work. In our case it was a big muddle, even after the year was finished I never met the extra teachers, saw no real evidence of any work done with them apart from a few scraps and it all seemed very disjointed with lots of worksheets. For us it was all about managing the teachers various hours they wanted rather than making a cohesive learning environment.

So if it happened again I would not be brushed off and I would ask for them to explain how it will work and request to meet all of them. If they give you the eye roll sigh, I would just say you think most of the class parents are concerned so perhaps they could hold a meeting for all the parents to explain how they've organised it.

If you are worried ask and ask again. Don't be worried and embarrassed to say something now otherwise you might be bitter at the end like me!

Bear in mind on mumsnet you'll find a lot of teachers who want flexible working hours so you will get a lot of 'it'll be fine' and 'don't be one of those parents' on here.

"It happened while you were at school and you obviously didn't even notice/remember."

It didn't happen when I started teaching so many parents won't remember as they've never experienced it.

Thanks again for the perspectives.

I'm not automatically assuming it'll be bad, just with the start of term looming I'm having a think and wondering how it'll be. I am a natural pessimist though!

I knew all teachers did planning but didn't realise it was one big chunk of time in the week. I sort of assumed it would be in small sections daily maybe whether the class was doing a different activity like PE or joint with another class or something.

In this case the teacher has cut her hours so her planning will come out of her 4 days and the Monday lady will do her planning also on the Monday I guess.

Will suss out how I feel once it gets going and hopefully it'll be clearer as to who is doing what.

PPA only can in in 2005, Leadership & Management time came in in 2003. So relatively new.

I knew all teachers did planning but didn't realise it was one big chunk of time in the week

It isn't necessarily all in one big chunk as I understand it, though in a lot of schools that may well be the most convenient way to organise it so that there's a regular timetable for the replacement teacher. In some schools they have a cover teacher dealing with all of that, in some it is the head or deputy head that does it - which is another bonus as it's helpful for the head to get to know the children on a more individual level.

I began teaching in 1992. There was planning time. I also know my sister got it back in the 1980s. It wasn't called PPA, but it existed. It has always existed. Ask someone who used to teach in the 1960s and 1970s. It existed. (More then than there is now).

Anyway - a job share shouldn't cause problems. If there are any, it will be due to someone not pulling their weight, which would happen whether there's a job share or not. The problem is the person not fitting the role, rather than a job share existing.

I began teaching in 1992. There was planning time

Where did you teach? I know this isn't relevant to the thread, but it absolutely did not exist in my LEA. I trained in 97 and qualified in 98 in England. Teachers 100% did not get planning time in any of the school's I worked in.

Schools-not school's. Not sure where the rogue apostrophe came from!

I'd never heard of planning time until we were all given it.

My first LEA was Leeds, we nominally had 3 non-teaching periods a week, but any and all of them could be taken up with cover (and frequently was). Having some non-teaching time each week was part of the union agreement, and everyone had it scheduled, even if we then had to cover other classes for all of them. It wasn't protected, but it did exist, at least in theory. No-one got a timetable with every single teaching period filled.

My sister began teaching around 1988, in Kent, and got non-teaching time. Again, it could be taken up with covering for other teachers.

When I worked in Cambs with a couple of teachers who'd begun back in the 60s, they talked about how planning/non-teaching time they'd had over the decades.

Are you primary or secondary?

DD had this pattern last year (Year 5) except the one day was a Friday. The "other" teacher did some cover elsewhere in the school on 1 or 2 other days. Although billed as a job share, the 4 day teacher was very much the lead teacher. The 1 day teacher had previously worked full time in the year group and still went to planning so was up to speed with what the children should be doing. The only issues were that sometimes the main teacher didn't pass on information about things needing finishing off but it wasn't a big deal, they just finished them the next day!! I'd think a Monday would work better from this point of view - it will be the "starting off" teacher that does the 1 day.

KickassAngel-that wasn't the case in primary schools-which is what the op was referring to. They didn't/don't get allocated teaching periods-just a class.