A mum just told me yr 5 sex ed is explicit and she was gutted

[PartyFants]

Title says it all, her dc is going into year 6, mine is going into year 5. Different schools though, if it matters. She warned me to check the sex ed material before they learn it as she was gutted when she heard how explicit it was, apparently many parents complained.

I'm not a prude, I'm happy for them to learn age appropriate stuff, eggs, sperm, erections, wet dreams etc but he's not a streetwise kid, he's so innocent and sweet I don't like the thought of him having to learn about extra bits like for example oral sex (or whatever she meant by explicit, we didn't discuss specifics) I've only just got him to stop drinking the bath water "because there's bottom germs in there"

I'm a bit spooked, anyone with a year 6 or above child who can give me their experience with the module, please?

[titchy]

Mrsgus 9 and 10 year olds aren't being shown videos of oral sex ffs. Nor do they practice putting condoms on carrots, though they do around year 9.

I've scrolled through your posts and genuinely can't see where you've said something has got worse - could you clarify?

Most sex ed at primary is pretty basic. Masturbation is covered cos some of them will be unsure why it feels nice and feeling guilty. Explaining that sex with someone you love feels nice and you can prevent having a baby seems ok. Explaining that there are various ways to do that again seems reasonable - why not?

Most lessons give an opportunity for kids to ask questions. Oral and anal may well be asked - kids will have heard of these from older siblings - better surely to have the truth explained in the context of a safe classroom by a trusted adult is surely better than thinking you know but knowing wrong?

Understanding that fancying someone of the same sex is fine is also essential. Some 9 and 10 year olds may be wondering about their feelings. Others use gay as an insult. Teaching acceptance from a young age is vital.

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

MrsGus
To answer your question about the benefits of explicit sex education (although explicit is debatable as we are not talking about oral sex videos here). yes, actually statisitcally it does reduce teenage pregnancy rates (including abortion rates).

There is clear evidence that in countries where sex education is the most open, detailed and honest (e.g. the Netherlands) and started before the age that children might become sexually active there are lower incidence of STDs, lower abortion rates and lower live births to teenaged parents. And the average age of first having sex is older.

In countries where sex education advocates abstinence (e.g. USA) and does not encourage sharing detailed information the teenage pregnancy rates are sky high. And on average they have sex younger.

There are some graphs here if you like numbers:

//www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/419-adolescent-sexual-health-in-europe-and-the-us

[Uglycryingface]

Our school invites all the parents in to watch the DVD first (its boring hell tbh).

I have no problem with 9/10 year olds being taught about oral sex. What it is, how to do it safely etc. I don't think they are teaching them rimming techniques at that age.

[Uglycryingface]

Agree with yestotally. Children need this stuff from an early age.

Names of private parts from toddlers (penis and vagina/vulva)
How babies are made (3/4/5)
How babies are made (the more explicit version) 6/7/8
What are condoms/tampons? What are they for (my DC play with condoms for water balloons and dip tampons in water buckets!) All ages
STD's/unwanted pregnancy/abortion 9/10/11
Relationship stuff/sexual enjoyment/respect/safe sex (all ages)

[Uglycryingface]

Meant to add:

Internet pornography (why its bullshit and not representative of real life) 8/9/10

Child sexual safety (all ages). Teach them the word peadophile, what it means etc. This can all be done in an age appropriate way!

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

And, to answer why countries that have the most open sex ed have the least teenage sex problems (STDs and unwanted pregnancy), I think it's something to do with creating an atmosphere where a young person feels able to discuss it when the time comes.

If at the age of 9 or 10 you are told the mechanics and something about loving relationships but absolutely nothing about the more embarrassing, wonderful, messy, exciting details of it all, you are strongly given the message by parents and teachers that we don't talk about this. It is not OK to ask.

Then at the age of 15 or 16 you find yourself in a sexual situation, you are not going to go and ask your parent or teacher about it. They've already made it clear that it's not a suitable subject for conversation.

[jamdonut]

Over the last few years(in the school I work in) , more and more girls are starting their periods in Year 6, and even year 5. It used to be almost unheard of!
When I was that age ,I hardly even knew what they were! Most of my age group started at age 12/13.

[JoandMax]

Reassuring to read this thread. I had minimal Sex Ed at school, the very basics taught at secondary! My parents have always been very prudish abut sex and periods so it was a real taboo subject growing up and I felt there was nobody I could ask questions too......

DS1 is just turned 8 and has been asking about babies (SIL is expecting in a couple of months) so I have explained the basics of egg and sperm. I've also never hidden periods from either of my sons as I want them to be fully aware of what also happens to women's bodies.

I mentioned it to a couple of friends who were shocked I had given him the factual information as he was 'far too young' so I had doubted myself. You've all made me feel much better!!

[MsGus]

Jamdonut, on your point about girls getting their periods earlier than before, what does it mean? Are you implying that this means sexual readiness is indicated by periods and that the age of sexual readiness is dropping? There are some people who would welcome such an argument.

These youmg girls will need to understand about periods and what that entails, including the risk of pregnancy but why must the onset of a period mean you must be given explicit education about sexual acts?

The earlier onset of periods are linked to out diets mainly because of the chemicals and hormones in our food and drinks. Not necessarily a link to maturity.

The problem that the education system is trying to address is the lack of info on sex education in the home. Without parents actively engaging with their kids and providing an environment where kids can ask questions about sex, the fundamental problem remains. A child cannot truly understand sex and the nuances and responsibilities that come with it by simply sitting in a classroom.

[Middleoftheroad]

My two (boys, going into yr 6 now) are not streetwise in the slightest. I felt a little sad that that they would lose their innocence, but am aware that times have changed and that at 9, they would need to learn sooner than later.

TheIr sex ed was not explicit and I would rather they learn from the experts than playground gossip. Plus, didn't want them being last to know.

We started drip feeding bits at the start of yr 5 and and when sex ed came round one was very mature and the other said he and his friends just giggled the whole time.

[BertrandRussell]

Oh why do people equate knowing about sex with "losing innocence"?

[MsGus]

Teachers barely have time teach and they certainly do not have time to give quality one-to-one advice to kids who will most certainly have all sorts of questions that they may not want to ask in class or indeed that teaching time contraints does not allow.

They will continue to learn from peers and Internet, etc. With all the sex education kids are getting, why is it that time and time again it is reported that an increasing amount of children have a warped view of sex?

[DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen]

Teachers barely have time teach and they certainly do not have time to give quality one-to-one advice to kids who will most certainly have all sorts of questions that they may not want to ask in class or indeed that teaching time contraints does not allow

They did a fantastic job of sex ed at ds's school, nothing he didn't already know but they were extremely thorough.

Any questions were written on a slips of paper and dealt with on a one to one basis or in class anonymously.

There was also a parents course which we attended in the evening after school with our children which was very in depth.

[MsGus]

Yes Dame, I assume that's how it works for the majority of schools in the UK? Certainly not.

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

You're right Gus that sex ed is best heard from parents and that schools can only do part of the job. By providing quality, clear and honest sex education, schools are enabling that conversation to happen in supportive homes or filling some of the gaps for dcs who don't come from homes like yours.

But it's when parents withdraw their dcs from sex ed at school because it's 'too early' or 'not necessary' or because of ridiculous myths that their kids will be shown videos of oral sex that those very dcs learn the strong lesson that their parents do not approve of sex or any discussion about sex and they will be the last people their dcs ask in a few years time when they need advice.

[BertrandRussell]

" I do not feel it necessary to show him videos of oral sex"

Who does??

[titchy]

Actually I think it does work like the pp said in the majority of schools.

No one said earlier periods = earlier maturity to deal with sex - you're being silly now. Earlier periods does mean earlier knowledge that periods happen. Sex ed includes body changes - which wil be imminent in year 4 or 5.

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

I'd love to know, as well, why you claim that despite the increase in sex education and sexual awareness of teenagers that things have gotten worse .

In fact things have gotten got far better and teenage pregnancy rates continue to fall in the UK.

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35761826

[titchy]

And what explicit stuff are you actually objecting to? Videos of oral sex don't happen. Watching porn doesn't happen.

[J0kersSmile]

My dd learnt that her teacher shaved her pubes in year 5.

I was really impressed how open she was tbh.

[MsGus]

Reduction in pregnancy rates is not due to sex education but better availability of contraceptives and abortions.

I don't understand the point that earlier periods mean earlier knowledge that periods happen. That is obvious isn't it? That clearly isn't what I was saying when I made the point about sexual readiness. I also don't get the point about the watching of porn not happening. I s hooks? Who ever said that is the case?

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

Actually you are wrong about that Gus

There is a strong correlation between education and teen pregnancy rates but not such a strong correlation between availability of contraception and abortion. (Hence the abortion rate also drops where there is good levels of education.)

[Yestotallyunreasonable]

Here's some evidence.

//www.euro.who.int/en/data-and-evidence/evidence-informed-policy-making/publications/hen-summaries-of-network-members-reports/what-are-the-most-effective-strategies-for-reducing-the-rate-of-teenage-pregnancies

[BertrandRussell]

MsGus, I 'm still curious about the videos of oral sex. Who was showing them and where?

[blinkowl]

I also don't get the point about the watching of porn not happening

Mrsgus it was you who said that porn was happening. You said DC were watching videos of oral sex.

Others have asked you why you think this happens as we're pretty sure it doesn't!

So, can you answer that? Why did you think DC watch videos of oral sex in sex ed?