keeping last year's exercise books for OFSTED

[KOKOagainandagain]

DS2 is in due to start year 6 in September. At the end of the year bits and pieces came home but not his exercise books for science, maths and english. The CT said that all books are kept in school until the end of the following year, due to monitoring and OFSTED.

OFSTED say "Ofsted will take a range of evidence into account when making judgements, including published performance data, the school’s in-year performance data and work in pupils’ books and folders. However, unnecessary or extensive collections of marked pupils’ work are not required for inspection."

A google search confirms that OFSTED don't require schools to keep last year's books but some schools seem to like to keep them 'just in case' or to avoid parental criticism or because they are chasing 'outstanding' rating.

What are the actual rules? I know that universities 'own' the work of undergraduates/postgraduates but do schools 'own' the work of DC and so can delay handing it over or can even destroy it?

Background is that DS2 is due AR/transfer to EHCP at the start of the next academic year but I am not allowed to see his workbooks from year 5 - i.e. the period being reviewed. Instead I have been given a small selection of copies of work in one lesson. There are no copies of work from maths, science or topic. We are supposed to be reviewing the impact of new provision on his day to day work in those lessons. His books were supposed to be brought to the last IEP review and meeting with autism outreach but never appeared. I know what's in them - I or DH went in to view his work most weeks but didn't photo stuff.

The school now consider the matter closed. Can I do a subject access request under the data protection act? Obviously I would rather not do this but don't see any alternative as the school are refusing to share enough information with me so that I can participate in the Review.

Increasingly schools could be holding onto books for years

KeepOn, Ask the SENCo for the books in advance of the AR - unless it is on Day 1 of the new term it should be fine, especially if you are only wanting them for a shot while and they know that you will return them if they need them at short notice for e.g. an inspection.

But the trouble with having a lot of raw data is that any such evaluation can't be made by an individual inspector with any reliability because there is no analysis. Hence fancy tools such as pupil tracker. Enter the data (correctly) and you can get the package to churn out all sorts of analysis of progress in relation to SEN, PP, high achievers and low achievers, girls and boys, end of key stage etc. Standard multi-variate analysis.

I don't believe that this can be achieved by an individual inspector reviewing the books of individual pupils.

I don't like made up, blanket policies being used as an excuse. As if schools have no choice. Of course they do. They could make reasonable adjustment. As levels no longer exist, how can progress be reviewed for AR in the absence of workbooks? If workbooks are needed to assess progress for OFSTED they are also needed to assess progress for AR. The current school have no interest in support in secondary. Why should they? He will be an ex-pupil to them. But he is still my son and I care about support past year 6. But it seems in order to support my son through transition I have to act in the same as behaving unreasonably i.e. wanting equal access to my son's workbooks/copies. By the time his books are released he will have left that school and it will be too late and all rather pointless.

Do you think this unreasonable? I thought that schools wanted to work with parents?

Reading the thread title struck fear into my heart! Happily, I haven't taught for two years and Ofsted can do one!

Who have you asked for his books?

Have you explained why you want them, and how long you want them for?

Is the school open at the moment, or are you anyway going to have to wait until the end of the holidays?

When is the AR in relation to the start of term (A day later? A week later? A few weeks later?)?

The only situation in which it is worth getting worked up about this is if you have already asked class teacher from last year, class teacher for next year, SENCo and head teacher AND the AR is within a day or two of the start of term.

Otherwise, you wait for the start of term (there may well be an INSET day or two before the opening of school for pupils, so you can ask then). You ask new class teacher, then SENCO, then if necessary HT, explaining exactly what you want, what you want it for, and when you will return the books.

If - and I think this is unlikely - they say 'no, you can't have the books at all', then ask for a full copy. If they say they don't have time, then ask for the books to be brought to the front desk / photocopy room, and you personally will make a copy.

If the review really is on day 1 of term, then you will need to find a point when there is someone in school - the head answers e-mails, or there are INSET days as I mentioned, and many staff will be in during the last week of the holidays - and ask to do the copying yourself as a matter of urgency.

I think you need to work through a pragmatic 'to do' list, rather than railing at 'the system'.

"But the trouble with having a lot of raw data is that any such evaluation can't be made by an individual inspector with any reliability because there is no analysis. Hence fancy tools such as pupil tracker. Enter the data (correctly) and you can get the package to churn out all sorts of analysis of progress in relation to SEN, PP, high achievers and low achievers, girls and boys, end of key stage etc. Standard multi-variate analysis."

Yes, pretty but may well be meaningless if e.g. one school says a child has achieved something if they do it once with support - or if they do 3 out of 5 elements - while another school only marks something as achieved if every element has been done 3 times, remote from teaching and independently. Which is why the inspector will then triangulate using direct information from books - and lesson observations - to see if that data appears 'reasonable'.

Yes I know it should be easy to accommodate but I really have to face the fact that this school is in a league of it's own. The LA have had to intervene on multiple occasions over things like delivering unnecessary interventions not specified on his Statement during English, maths and science lessons.

When he changed schools due to a house move the LA forced the school to take him despite their saying 'no' and it not being parental preference. Since then things have been awful. His old school rated him 3b in maths at the end of year 3. His new school reassessed him at 2c at the beginning of year 4 and then claimed he made 12 APS in one year. He was 2a in KS1 SATs. During the first term he did no work in maths. The CT confirmed that the old school had forwarded on workbooks but she was too busy to read them. She said he just didn't like the way she taught maths.

In the spring parent teacher consultation she said DS2 had not made progress in science because he had missed half the lessons because this was when friendship group was run.

In my mind he has already left (placement has to be planned at least a year in advance). If he passes his 11+ in September I may withdraw and HE for the rest of year 6 to be rid of all this. Grammar school will have to support him to achieve his assessed high potential but I have been told that local academy will only have to get him to average.

It isn't that the inspector arrives with no preconceptions, with a blank piece of paper, and then says 'bring me your books'. They will look at e.g. SATs data, then internal data, and will then seek out evidence - 'Maths progress for low attaining boys is low in KS2, I shall visit maths lessons across tgh key stage, looking at provision for low attainers [amongst other things], then I shall look at books for a sample of low attaining boys vs girls in 3 year groups, and will then observe an intervention Maths session run by a TA during assembly time'.

IME, inspectors start from a 'working hypothesis' and a number of queries from the paperwork they have in advance of inspection, and then work through collecting evidence - and the list of queries changes as they find things during the inspection.

As there are no levels or national expectations for Y1, 3, 4 or 5 inspectors can't compare data from one school with any other which is why the content of books and conversations with pupils are so important.

Sorry, x-post. have you tried contacting one of the SEN support ./ advocacy organisations? It's not 'the system', it's your school.

Ds1 just Finished year 4, he got all his year 3 books back on the last day of term which solves the "sentiment" piece.

You should be able to borrow or copy the books, OP, for your circs.

Teacher - I am glad this is not standard. Let me give you an example. The school received reports and targets from SALT and OT at the end of the spring term. These were not shared with me - I didn't even know they existed. They never made it onto his IEP. I found out by accident when the OT phoned me after going into school to review progress and being told that I told the school not to deliver provision (I was unaware that targets and a programme even existed).

I then directly asked for copies. The school refused and said ask the LA. I phoned the LA. They phoned the school. The school then provided copies of 2 of the 3 documents they had 'because the LA didn't have copies'. Except they did and they had already sent copies in the post of all three documents.

Lack of goodwill makes the simple impossible to achieve.

I can understand why OFSTED don't trust pretty graphs. They are meaningless in terms of progress if you falsify starting points. Did DS2 make 6 or 12 points progress in maths? That depends if your starting point is 2c or 3b. But the thing about falsifying stats is that they come back to bite you on the bum. You then have to explain why 12 points progress has reduced to 4 points the next year despite massive increase in provision.

Is this school really that bad (yes according to IPSEA, SOS!SEN, coram legal centre etc)? The LA keep pushing me to complain to the BOG but it is much faster and less time consuming to phone the LA and get them to force the school to do what it should. 24 hour about face rather than weeks of crafting letters, meetings etc.

They are meaningless if you enter the data correctly when there are no national standards except for the end of each key stage leaving every school free to make up their own system

It all seems meaningless. We are spinning cogs that never connect. Progress in relation to statement objectives is different to academic progress per se. But the school only want to talk about general progress (which has always been average or above average) instead of progress toward individual targets. So DS2 has not been able to meet a target of staying on task for five minutes but I am assured he is making progress. In what reality does not meeting a target mean that you are making progress? Welcome to the world of SEN. This really means 'he is autistic, what do you expect?' (I have been told this and told to lower my expectations).

If you want data towards his targets such as remaining on task hugs books aren't going to be helpful ...do the school not review his SEN targets with you (more difficult to evidence)

What would you do mrz? I bet you have well thought out ideas

Wrt SEN what is the point of external experts (GOSH, EPs, SALTs, OTs, autism outreach) when the Senco believes that they are a leading international expert and have personally 'diagnosed' ASD in at least 10 DC that don't have an official diagnosis? Whilst never having heard of proprioception and so dismissing OT recommendation of a wobble cushion.

His books are a very useful indicator. He has an OT objective of producing 12-14 wpm. He can easily do this when motivated. If the DC are allotted 20 minutes to complete a written task, it is very easy to see how many words he wrote in those 20 minutes. If in 20 minutes he writes less than 50 words we can compare this to what is expected of him in relation to statement targets and the average expected of peers. Also we can see if scaffolding has been used and there is a beginning, middle and end, a cohesive narrative etc.

The alternative is a subjective statement that all is fine (with no supporting evidence). Followed by a nasty wake up call if transition fails or the secondary school tell you everything the primary told you was wrong.

I am forewarned. DS1 (ASD) has had less than 5 terms of secondary education He will be 16 in the autumn. Sometimes when primary schools insist everything is fine, it really isn't.

I would want staff to record info against the child's actual targets so I could inform the parent that although they can't focus for five minutes every lesson they are now concentrating for X minutes in most lessons but mornings/afternoons remain a problem or they pay attention in maths and ICT but not in art

On a personal note I'm struggling to get copies of reports from SaLT /paediatricians /CAMHS etc and spend half my time chasing after people who only work certain days or who aren't in the office and would I like to leave my number ...communication between different professionals still has a long way to go!

Keeping
Are you having meetings with the SENCO?
IEPs should have dates for when planned and when reviewed on them .Are they reviewing the targets?
At our school we liaise with the Secondary depending on the needs of the pupil. So where one pupil may just have two visits another may have five or six between the staff and schools.
In regard to the books we might photocopy some pages but not usually the whole book for meetings. You don't seem to trust them to be able to chose which pages they do this but unless the page is marked with the time taken or that the work was supported and which member of staff will you actually be any the wiser?
As for the change in marking between schools we often find children have dropped because they have forgotten some over the holidays. This is children from the same school as well as those that change school this could be the reason for the change and subsequent rise as he settled back in school.
Re Science I have had this complaint about children in my group who continually miss lessons but I am timetabled for that group at that time and can't change it. It is unfortunate that it impacts on a particular subject but it is more important to attend the group which then impacts on their learning in all the other subjects.
I agree the school should be working with you on this.

Ditzy - the school are annoyed (with parents) because they have been repeatedly directed to do things differently - ie as set out in his statement - by the LA. This has related to non-delivery of provision, removal of provision despite lack of progress with no alternative provision, not sharing reports of external experts etc. The LA used to attend IEP reviews, write the targets, insist on delivery, review progress etc. The LA post has been abolished due to cuts.

We had to go to tribunal because the school insisted on 'using' all his hours during semi-structured and unstructured times and argued that there was no time left to deliver support in class. He now has dedicated support in all written lessons to provide scaffolding, writing frames etc with a specific behavioural modification plan to increase independent focus. So we do know the level of support, dates and times of sessions etc.

At tribunal the SENCO argued that DS2 didn't need any support at break or lunchtimes. Parents conceded. We have more issues than usual but this is not DS2's primary need. But after tribunal the school just reissued the provision map prior to tribunal, ignoring the Ruling and Statement and still insisting on delivering provision at semi and unstructured times (eg 5 hours dedicated support at lunchtime) and refusing to provide support in written lessons because they had used up (increased) hours. It is perverse.

At the target setting meeting, the SENCO eventually agreed to remove the 5 hours lunchtime support but the freed up hours were then used to deliver support during the early morning before lessons start (30 minutes each day) plus assembly and a 15 minute new intervention each day (eg 1 hour 15 minutes touch typing practice per week). Hence, there was still no hours left to provide support directed by tribunal. I phoned the LA who then phoned the school. The school then produced a new provision map but the head also banned any further communication with the SENCO and said that he had taken over. So when I was asked into school to meet the SALT, all school staff were absent. Didn't meet and greet, introduce, attend the meeting or even direct us to a room to have the meeting. Front door left open, no reception or office staff, no SENCO, CT, LSA or head to be seen. I was embarrassed on their behalf. Only the CT now attends an IEP review. This sort of behaviour does not inspire trust.

DS2 has a statement target to focus on all adult directed tasks, not just some of them depending on his own interest at that time. If a new topic captures his interest he may write 100 words one day but the next day he may have bored of the topic and struggles to write 20 words. His handwriting is twice the size and careless. There is no spacing, punctuation etc. Which day would you copy? You need both to see the pattern. You really need to see workbooks from different subjects over the whole period of the AR to see whether the pattern of on task/off task behaviour has improved as a result of provision. But it is possible to present snapshot evidence from good days to support a claim that focus has increased if we assume that, prior to delivery of provision, every day was a bad day.

The school has provided copies of work produced on a couple of good days in one subject during last term (there are no more examples). They have provided one copy of a single piece of work on a 'bad' day (there are lots more examples). They don't copy days when his LSA has had to write the date and title and DS2 writes 0 words.

The ratio of on and off task behaviour when following adult direction has always been like this and was recognised by his previous school. Their focus was on providing support so that more days could be good days. Progress needs to assess whether the number of 'bad' days has decreased and not whether he is engaged on some occasions. Obviously it is not in DS2's interests to claim that provision is adequate if it isn't, especially as this will have a huge impact on his experience of year 7.

The only way I have got him to engage with 11+ tuition is by using techniques specified in his statement. That way, I can even get him off his iPad to do an hour long English/ verbal reasoning written paper each day. During the summer holidays. Also the 11+ exam board have allowed the same in the exam (extra time, separate room, movement breaks, wobble cushion etc).

But his current school say he has reached his limit at 5 minutes focus and I need to reduce my expectations. He may be cognitively 'gifted' but is autistic and will struggle to achieve average.

So you are right that I do not/ have learned not to trust the school. Do you think they are trustworthy?

Who is going to have time to make copies? If every parent requested this it would take HOURS of teaching time, which would not benefit any of the children.

If ofsted arrive in the first term and the current class have not done a sufficient amount of work to demonstrate progress then they will look to the previous year books. Teachers and schools need to do this to ensure they are demonstrating the work they do. Evidence is needed.

It would be more than fair of you to request the books be returned to you half way through the next year.

We also have to look at the cost of paper for photocopying as our school is on a very strict budget. I'm sure you would prefer that money to go on support for the children in class.

I work in a big class and managed to fill a six foot tall cupboard with last years previous books we need to keep.

Why don't you have a meeting with the Class teacher to look at progress and how this has been evaluated and measured? Then you would have the evidence you need for the annual review. The school should be recording progress and presumably they should know if good progress is being made or not. The AM should not be about a parent identifying what progress has or hasn't been made by looking at books as they are unlikely to have the expertise to do this. It is not adversarial either so is it best to try and look at progress data together to see where progress is good and where it is not and agree what needs to be addressed together. I cannot see why it is so vital for you, personally, to have the books and it is definitely not worth legislation to clarify the situation. Trust the school's assessment and recording of progress. They will be keenly aware if your DC hadn't made any!