Marked work - NO positive/encouraging comments - normal?

[EarthboundMisfit]

Hello. Feeling a bit sad for Y1 DS today. He brought all his school exercise books home tonight. I've enjoyed looking at his work, but am a bit upset by the marking.

He's doing well at school... lots of 'mastery' on his report. But on every piece of work all that's been written by his teacher is what to improve. 'Watch this' 'Slow down' 'Try to do x' etc.

I nearly fainted when I saw a smiley face next to one piece. It was an evaluation of a junk model he made at home and spent hours on. The comment was - 'you have done well at evaluating how you could improve your model'.

There's one piece of work marked by a Y2 teacher who covered their class. It's nice...it has a 'well done, you've done a great job of x', followed by a suggestion for how to improve.

All I can think is that if I'd received that marking for a year I'd feel like shit about myself.

Am I being unreasonable and PFB? Is this normal?

Thanks.

I am a bit dubious about the value of feedback - so mainly this seems like a lot of extra work for teachers that probably doesn't have a great effect on learning. However I am bemused about the strength of feeling on here - how can you hate an approach, go on strike, sneer at people who do it.. it's an attempt however misguided to help.

it's an attempt however misguided to help

it often isn't seen like that, it is seen as manipulated. How angry and insulted would you be in your employer spoke to you in "praise sandwiches". it is demeaning.

It often isn't the choice of the teacher anyway, normally instructions handed down from ofsted, based on "educational research" done by idiots who have no idea what "research" actually means.

it amazes me the crap that flows our of the mouths of ofsted. Do you remember brain gym, and styles of learning, and all that rubbish that dissolved away like snow, when subjected to actual scientific scrutiny, by actual scientists. ( beleive it or not, some schools still pursue it, bbut it really is impossible to keep up with "educational thinking"

Its no better than the "statistical analysis" of results at schools, which frequently has so much weight paced upon it, when ACTUAL statistical analysis performed by actual statisticians show there is absolutely no significance in the analysis performed by the schools or LEAs

Actual you don't have to be an actual statistician, I've known sixth form maths students come to the same conclusion

2 stars and a wish is bollocks, why so much praise? It creates unrealistic expectations.

I use smiley faces in secondary for good stuff and only write improvement comments. The kids know if they have done well because the answers are correct. No need to re write that. Marking has to be useful and efficient. Parents would be horrified if they knew the number of hours it took.

Penelope that's how we mark in ks2 at my school. Whack a bit of highlighter on the correct/positive bits and give a "Can you now..." comment.

It's not an attempt to help it's a strategy imposed by some schools originally intended as a peer assessment strategy it somehow found its way into the marking policy of some schools
http://www.learningspy.co.uk/leadership/two-stars-and-a-bloody-wish/

And don't get me started on tickled pink and green for growth (obviously someone with shares in courted biros came up with this rubbish)

My 9 year old DD is very strong academically. She has not had one single positive comment written in her book by her teacher this year. She thinks she's doing badly.

I'm a teacher. It takes seconds to put something nice before your suggestions for improvement.

It takes seconds to speak to a child

I know but speaking is obviously not working with my DD. Her confidence has nosedived this year.

I'm a bit puzzled that people are so down on structured positive feedback eg praise sandwich, 2 stars and a wish.

I have to do some adult education as part of my job and it's really drummed into us that we should balance positive and negative feedback. I know I find it much easier to criticise than praise and I find it helpful when giving and when receiving feedback to be forced to think of something positive.

I like it when I hear my DCs school teacher or even their swimming teacher making positive comments as well as suggestions for improvement.

Surely people aren't suggesting specific praise is a bad thing? Is it just the artificial structure you don't like? And what on earth's wrong with a learning objective? Isn't it good to know what you are trying to achieve.?

Mrz you are of course correct in that verbal feedback is by far the best, it can be used at the time as learning is taking place and is far far quicker.

We constantly get from slt "Where's the evidence of verbal feedback?". So now we have to write a v in a circle and put a small comment

Although I do agree with long lost about educational statistics

I am a school governor and I always find it inane how people try to compare tiny sample sizes. The figures are always presented without any confidence intervals or even a range and everyone looked at me like I was crazy when I suggested you'd need such things to properly compare.

Half the time it's not even results for the same kids they are comparing due to the amount of churn in our urban area. It is laughable that anyone thinks these numbers are reliable but Ofsted and the LA place so much store by them.

I went to some training on it and the poor woman running it was a former head and current Ofsted inspector and she was totally flustered. I wasn't personally giving her a hard time but she was in a uni town talking to a load of academics. It was pointed out about the sample size and statistical significance issues and that the value added scores must be scaled to 100 as a norm (like an IQ scale) given the range of values and she really couldn't grasp what that meant.

Apparently everyone must make greater than expected progress and everyone must be better than average but surely statistically this is nonsense.

I have to do some adult education as part of my job and it's really drummed into us that we should balance positive and negative feedback.

even if the work is not balanced? How insulting

Well yes

You can always find something positive and when I've put it into practice I've found people respond better to the criticism if they can see you are being fair and recognising what they have done and we have a better ongoing relationship.

maybe Mamadoc, until they realise that it is all meaningless, that you just have a policy of hunting for something positive to say, and they feel they have been manipulated, and they never trust anyone saying anything positive to them ever again.

For myself I don't really mind relentless negativity.
I am used to it from medical education in the bad old days which was largely based on public humiliation. You develop a thick skin.

But surely everyone likes to have their achievements recognised.

It's not entirely fake and meaningless. I never say anything I don't mean. It's just that I hunt for a positive where I might not have done before.

I've just spent the last 5 years teaching Year 1. I'm the most highly qualified teacher in my school.

We follow the school's marking policy. The focus is on meaningful marking and not wasting teachers' time. I always tried to see every piece of work in the lesson and talk to the child about it, but that's not always possible. I would make a separate pile of marked work where I wanted to discuss my feedback with the child. However, as a PP said, there are only so many ways to write comments like 'Remember to use a capital letter and a full stop'.

Why would you assume that only the positive feedback is nonsense? If you want positive behaviour repeated then you need to notice it and praise it. This works for me as an adult educator and for my 9 year old DD in school. My experience as a university based educator and quite a lot of research shows that balanced feedback is most effective. Yes, if a piece of work is very poor then the weight of the feedback will be towards what needs to improve but only an educator lacking any imagination or empathy will be able to find nothing positive to say. And I don't feel patronised by praise, I have learnt simply to say thank you.

and quite a lot of research shows that balanced feedback is most effective not real scientific research, only educational "research"

I have nothing against positive praise at all! It is a good thing, when it is genuine.

Not when you are looking for something to praise to fulfill a quota

Ofsted have said that writing verbal feedback/V/VF or using a stamp isn't required by them and never has been
"Live marking" is seen as an effective method for both pupils and teachers.
I recently visited a school with a colleague (we'd been asked to give feedback) and they were upset/shocked/ surprised by the questions "who is the marking for!" & "do you think you should be writing more in your feedback than the pupil has written?"

During a lesson I ask ...

Have you remembered capital letters?
Have you remembered finger spaces?
Have you remembered punctuation?

At the end I ask
Have you read your work to see if it makes sense?

Thanks iwasspartacus I'm a Y1 teacher so I must be shit. I have been in Y1 since I was employed at the school so I'm not sure why any school would employ a shit teacher just to put in Y1 - that can't be right. You must be a knob then.

I really like our school's marking policy - pinks for positive and "go for green".

I might mark "Well done for using capital letters and full stops!" And also underline them in pink. Then in green "Next time use and in the middle of a sentence." Every piece of work is positive and constructive. Lots of oral praise too.

Do you have the purple one of power too

I agree mrz, there's no point if they can't read it. For the kids in the class that are in the lowest able groups, we just put OF in a circle to indicate to SLT that we have spoken to the child and write a little comment about what was said. My higher ability kids love reading their own comments though so I like to write in a sentence for them.