Dh has removed dd from school today

[purpleturtle]

Dh helps in dd's class on a Thursday morning - just for the first hour or so. Already this week we have spoken to the class teacher (also deputy head and SENCo) about dd's unhappiness at school. TEacher has been pretty dismissive, and tbh there is probably a large degree to which dd is just going to have to lump it. She struggles in the large group environment, and is academically ahead of most of the class.

So anyway, dh was so unimpressed with the bad behaviour of the class, and the supply teacher's powerlessness in the face of the bad behaviour that he told her he would bring dd home today, and the teacher said she totally understood his reasons.

We await contact from the class teacher, when she's out of a meeting, and the headteacher, when she's actually back in the school. And this is supposedly one of the very best primary schools in the city.

don't see the way forward in your particular case purpleturtle. Really wouldn't have expected those problems in year 1

An awful situation for your dd to be in. And I hope you get a good resolution on Monday.

Sorry I should have made my "disgusting" comment clearer but didnt want to rant sorry.

Whilst I appreciate that all classes are different etc I have been constantly told that my DD year is difficult due to the boys (there were only 10 girls in a class of 33) this reason "they are difficult" has been the excuse used for not taking the class on any school trips for 3 years yet previous school trips at the infants school were never a problem.

If teachers need/want to label the class should they really be saying it to the parents of all the children? Lots of parents moved their children from this year but now the kids are back together in senior school!

I should add that the school is considered to be a very good one and certainly better than the others in the area at present!

I've read most of the thread but not all, so if I have missed something, I apologise.

What really struck me is that, a Y1 class need consistency. If their teacher is the deputy head and Senco, that is a lot of other responsibility and time away from class. Older children can cope with this better, but I think it is very disruptive. If the teacher has to have 2 days out of class, I would expect the other 2 days to be taught by the same person each week. At least then the children know what to expect. I would expect the supply/ cover teacher and regular teacher to meet, discuss plans, behaviour management etc.

I sounds like no-one is doing this class any favours and they deserve better. PE is a legal requirement, not a treat and it MUST not be taken away due to poor behaviour. Kids need PE time.

What is the atmosphere like in the class on a normal day? Is the teacher using positive comments to dicipline the class or is it all negative? A positive approach to behaviour management with a consistent system of sanctions and rewards should be in place.

If we think of it from the point of view of the children it is easy to see how low they will be feeling. They have probably been told how awful they are on a daily basis. Maybe they have become a self fulfilling prophecy.

Never underestimate the power of a heartfelt well done and a warm smile from a teacher. Back it up with a sticker and the child feels ten feet tall.

I feel for the teacher and the kids but mostly the kids. Year one should be full of fun. It shapes their attitude to school for the rest of their school life.

I think that is going to be what we ask for, mamama.

re PE: I think they usually have a PE lesson, but if the class takes too long to change, or is too noisy, the response is not to get apparatus out.

Agreed, spudmasher.

There is a group of children called the 'always sensible' group, which is intended to be a motivational tool. The names are displayed. so an attempt has been made.

But I wonder whether children feel it's unattainable, and therefore don't bother. Dd has always been in the always sensible group, and has consequently developed a rather unattractive superiority complex that makes her impatient and intolerant of what she perceives as silly behaviour.

So I'm not altogether convinced even by the positive disciplinary tools!

Hmmmm. Does sound like it's all gone a bit wrong there. The positivity I mean is more embedded in every interaction the teacher has with a class, group or individual, not just star charts and table of the week awards.

Difficult to explain what I mean. If The teacher were trying to get the attention of the class, they might say something like 123, eyes on me or whatever they usually do but they follow it up with a whole heap of Wow so and so, you did that so quickly! Fantastic Jimmy you're so quick!!! Not necessarily the always sensible children getting the praise but deliberately targetting those who don't usually conform. Catch them being good.Three positive comments for one negative etc. You feel like a complete twit as a teacher as it is so over the top and you might not be feeling positive inside. But it does work. Rambling now......only 25mins til g and t time...

Crikey - this is a year 1 class. A deputy head should be able to have perfect discipline without resorting to banning PE. Even in the most disruptive of classes 6 year olds are young enough to respond well to good positive discipline. It sounds as thought the supply teacher has the thankless task of dealing with a bunch of children who have been left without any boundaries.

Well done to Mr Purpleturtle. You did good! What is your game plan for Monday? I would suggest that you go in with quite a clear set of concerns and requests for action. Can dd change class? Can the school put in an experienced full-time classroom assistant to support the teacher? Can they draw up a clearer set of rewards and punishments to support discipline? Schools do notoriously close ranks when a teacher's ability is called in to question (it's sadly in the school's interest to make you look like problem parents rather than admit to a problem teacher).

PT, byt the sounds of the the kids have not had consistant positive reinforcers. It is probably going to take a while to turn things around, but it needs to be started asap.

I hope you get something sorted on Monday

Is the class teacher also the deputy head? Missed that one. ......blimey.

Thanks all.

Am going to try to stay away from this thread over the weekend. The situation is taking over my head. Will report back Monday.

Have a nice weekend with your dd purps.Good luck on Monday.

Good luck with everything purpleturtle. It really is a difficult situation.

Good luck on Monday. Hope it all turns out positive.

Purpleturtle - I feel very sad for you in this situation. I think you dh's actions were entirely correct. Sometimes staff in schools are heard to say "it's a wonder the parents don't complain", and if they do then something has to happen!

In dss primary school 14 classes of 30 - 420 children (aged 4-11) there is a full-time non-teaching SENCO.
There is a deputy HT and an assistant HT, and they each get one day a week on Mgt duties (as well as 0.5 P&P).

Last year ds2 had one of the deputies and I was a bit concerned how this would work out, but it was fab: the cover arranged was regular and consistent. And I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect this to be the case.

I hope you get some answers and possible solutions on Monday, and do not get fobbed off.

I think your DH did the right thing. DD's school has a very difficult Year 1 class, stories of children cutting other children's uniforms with scissors, pulling skirts up and knickers down in class are doing the rounds. One parent has moved her DS and the others are worried. The teacher left a few weeks into the new school year, they now have a replacement and 2 classroom assistants to try to sort it out and I know the SENCO has been heavily involved. So hopefully they will sort it.

Fingers crossed that this gets resolved very quickly for you all.

Good luck for today's meeting.

What a difficult situation.

My sister took her children out of a school where the year one class was a copy of 'Lord of the Flies'. It really only takes a few kids to be completely disrespectful and the rot quickly sets in.

In this case, the parents of the offending children were very clever, wealthy people who let their own kids act out horribly to the extent that every lesson involved spitting, swearing and violence. They said that their kids were extremely clever and so were allowed to express themselves. There were no sanctions that worked at school because the parents didn't back up any discipline. I witnessed one of the kids plunge a pencil into a teachers leg when I collected my nephews once. Total lack of remorse.

The school called it 'a difficult class' too.

Sympathies with your situation purpleturtle, I don't imagine there'll be a quick fix for you, but I think you're doing the right thing by making a stand. What troubles me the most about this is: How are parents that don't get to sit-in/observe a real classroom situation supposed to identify this poor level of teaching? PT you're DH was lucky to observe it first hand and another poster says that she has observed a class in action - Is this usually allowed? Can anyone sit-in or are we all doomed to accept what is said at parents evening and not really get an accuate real life impression- I'm thinking that a 6 year old can't really relay this imformation accurately although he/she will probably give you pause for thought. BTW I'm on my first and she's only 8 mths but I'm already concerned about thois stuff.

God, who'd be a teacher these days?! To throw my 2 bob's worth in, I think the real problem lies in wider society. I believe a child's education is a 3 way deal- Child/School/Parents. All 3 have to be trying to work in harmony to acheive the best outcome. IMHO 6 year olds who behave that badly will have seen bad or disrespectful behaviour modelled somewhere- say, at home? I know I was quite shocked to discover the extent of poor parenting hinted at at my DSs infant school, and it's in a quite 'nice', well to do area! Though I know that in these days of 'rights' not responsibilities, the school just cannot do this:- but my solution is to get the parents of those kids in and sort them out, whether by offering support (parenting classes!) or a reading of the Riot Act! A teacher needs to be able to deal with a degree of exuberant and noisy behaviour but a complete inability to sit and listen at all at 6 points to a wider issue. And I agree with actions of the original poster. It's possible that the school management can now, with proof, demand some changes whether it's in some more cash for behavioural management/SEN or a lightening of the permanent teacher's load.

just seen this PT, hope you get this sorted, and if you fancy a rant just let me know! see you tonight.

Purpleturtle: how'd it go?

We met with the headteacher and the class teacher (deputy head) together. We were all very polite to each other , and because the class teacher was there, dh and I did hold back some of the things we'd like the headteacher to know. We may need to write a letter on that front.

We did learn that whereas dd was well ahead of the class in reading and writing, there are now several children as good as she is, and in maths there are some who are better than her. I was unaware of this, and this information does make me wonder whether dd's current dissatisfaction with school is a result of this healthy 'competition'. (that might not be the best way to phrase what I really mean). School also went back to previous comments they have made about dd being a bit risk-averse, and reluctant to join in activities she's not sure she can do well. So I do feel they have given us some constructive pointers with which to move forward for dd as an individual.

I questioned the lack of continuity in cover for this class. I don't think that was acknowledged. The school feels it has done its best by the children in regard to this. In fact, the headteacher told us that we are now responsible for unsettling the class because dh removing dd on Thursday was the reason the supply teacher gave for not wanting to teach that class any more, so school currently has no cover, let alone continuous cover for that class. I'm not prepared to feel responsible for that, because IMO they should have more permanent arrangements in place to cover for a deputy head's management time anyway.

If the class teacher were not at the meeting we would perhaps have apprised the headteacher of some of the incidents we have observed of the teacher's stress/poor handling of situations.

Our main focus now is to encourage some of the parents we have spoken to to make their concerns known as well, so that the scale of the problem has to be acknowledged.

In all of this the person I am most sorry about is the poor supply teacher who has given up days of work this half-term.

Keep going Purps. The situation is far from resolved imo.