Future sibling admissions point for rare non-Catholic in Catholic primary school

[ag123]

Ds has recently been offered a place at a popular local catholic primary school for this coming September.

We are not Catholic and the school seem to think it is a rare 'low birth rate' year for the area.

It is noted in the current admissions document that for the past five years the school has not offered a place to anyone below category 4 in the admissions criteria (enclosed) so it is indeed a rare occurrence.

We are definitely accepting the place for ds but I have a question about our younger child...

I fully admit that I am getting ahead of myself as dd is currently 10 months, an end of August baby and would be due to start reception in September 2019

So, because of the fact there haven't been any non-Catholics in the school for so long, they evidently haven't found it necessary to address the issue of non-Catholic siblings in the admissions policy. My question is, do you think this gives more or less flexibility for 'discretion'..?

Before you think I'm asking something that I'm not, I fully accept that it is most likely that the school will admit Catholic children ahead of a non-Catholic sibling and I have taken the decision to send ds there despite this fact.

My question is, do you think there is any likelihood of a non-Catholic sibling being considered below category 4 in the enclosed admissions document? Should I expect them to refer to non-Catholic siblings in documents in future years? Is there any point in becoming particularly active in the PTA etc (though I plan to anyway) in order to show I fully support the Catholic ethos of the school?

our local catholic school was in the press recently for a similar situation, it started new, lots of non catholics got in to fill the places, then their siblings come along a few years later, catholic children now filling all the places so they are a long way down the admission criteria and didn't get in and they were up in arms about it even though the criteria had said this all along. they appealed but did not get in.

But what if she is already baptised c of e?

RC's recognise that as baptism - you could start going to mass every Sunday.

sashh The Catholic Church does not recognise children baptised C of E as baptised Catholics. It recognises them as baptised members of other Christian churches. i.e. Category 7 in the over subscription criteria used by OPs school.

OP can attend Catholic mass all she wants, but it won't get her anywhere with school admissions unless she gets her DC baptised again as Catholics in a Catholic Church.

Ok, we are due to get dd baptised (c of e) in a couple of months. We haven't told many people yet...maybe we will postpone. As I understand it, if we get her baptised c of e we will never be able to baptise her into the Catholic Church (and get the all important Catholic baptism certificate) as they recognise one baptism so wouldn't baptise for a second time..? I'm not saying a conversion is something we will definitely be going ahead with, but at least it would give us the option..?

I'm really not sure how conversions and second baptisms work with the Catholic Church.

I know adults can convert, but I don't know the position on children. Particularly if the priest may have reason to suspect the conversion is being driven by school admissions.

If you're seriously considering converting to Catholism I'd consider delaying the C of E baptism until you've reached a decision on converting.

Shameful, religion is not something to be messed about with because of a school .

OP can attend Catholic mass all she wants, but it won't get her anywhere with school admissions unless she gets her DC baptised again as Catholics in a Catholic Church.

Er..... Nope, you can't do that, child is either baptised or not. Same for an adult

Canon Law 864 Every person not yet baptized and only such a person is capable of baptism

The OP can start attending mass with a view to conversion for herself.

You don't seem to know what you want. I have been a Catholic all my life and attend mass weekly. You want a school place without any commitment. The religion side of a Catholic school can be very full on. I would never send my child there if they weren't a baptised Catholic.

You are right, at this stage I do not no what I want, and the pp is also right, I am fully aware to even consider this is pretty shameful.

In all honesty before I started the thread the thought of converting hadn't even crossed my mind. We got a place for ds at this local Catholic school very unexpectedly and we haven't thought much further than that or as I mentioned in my previous post had at least thought it seems silly not to go with the decision given we are not completely sure what our circumstances might be in 3 years time.

I am happy with the notion of ds going to a Catholic school because we are a Christian family... My schooling was religious-based, both primary and secondary C of E even though my parents weren't religious, and I found the experience enriching.

Yes, as it stands, your younger child would have little chance based on their current admissions policy, should there be enough catholic applicants to fill the spaces.

However, admissions policies are only usually agreed around 2 years in advance so you have plenty of time to lobby the governors to consider changing it. It may well be that the issue of non-Catholic siblings hasn't really arisen before. If you join the PTA etc and get involved in the spirit of the school, although they cannot break the rules of their admissions policy, they could be amenable to changing it in your favour when they write the policy for your younger child's admission year.

Finally, with the shift to academies looming, it's possible that the admissions policy may well change anyway.

workplacewoe there is no way a Catholic school will ever prioritise a Non-catholic child. Their sole purpose is to educate catholic children. The OP has a miniscule chance of getting her daughter in if she doesn't have her baptised as a Catholic.

Case in point this year plenty of non catholic siblings didn't get in , their parents were outraged which I kind of had some empathy with , as in difficulties of different schools for siblings etc,
but they were fully aware of the admissions procedure at the time of applying , and I really didn't like their outward aggressiveness toward the headteacher at the time .
Difficult times, this in an area where all the schools , with or not are reasonable education wise, if I were a non Catholic I wouldn't mind my children going to them , but I wanted a catholic education my my Catholic Church going family .
Ps attended church a ps non child singles and married too.

As for hawing favour, there is no way any headteacher should bend the rules in favour of a nice / school supporting parent that is not on at all

Hawing / showing

Our local Catholic school do not give sibling priority for non-catholics, hence quite a few siblings go to our school instead!

OP it sounds like you found a good fit school for your older child. I'd keep an eye on the situation and you have a bit of time to see what to do with the younger dc.

I would not be at all surprised if church schools will have their wings clipped a bit to become more inclusive in the next few years. Exactly because of people like Arkwright - I object to the aggressive tone of this post: "You don't seem to know what you want. I have been a Catholic all my life and attend mass weekly. You want a school place without any commitment. The religion side of a Catholic school can be very full on. I would never send my child there if they weren't a baptised Catholic."

REALLY?? Running to church once a week does not make someone more Christian than a person baptised c of e who feels the local Catholic school is a good fit for her child.

At my dc's school the criteria goes:-

1)looked after/Sen children
2)baptised Catholic children who live within the parish.
3)baptised Catholic brothers and sisters.
4) baptised Catholic children from other parishes.
5)brothers/sisters who are other than Catholic.
6)children of other Christian faiths.
7)all other children.

So at our school they do prioritise brothers and sisters that aren't Catholic in their own category but obviously baptised Catholic siblings come higher up the criteria. I don't actually agree with this and think that a sibling is a sibling regardless of fath, and that they should all come under one sibling category. If your child's school doesn't make room for a non Catholic sibling criteria through having a period of consultation then I'd say your youngest has little chance of getting a place as he'd be treated as having no sibling in terms of the criteria. Which I know is unfair but you never know, if enough people recommend a change to the criteria it might happen.

Comiconce You are entitled to your opinion. The OP got her child into this school as a Non-catholic. She admits she is supposed to be getting her younger child baptised in the CofE church. To me religion is very important and I wouldn't change mine for a school place. The position is clear she is very unlikely to get her younger child in.

If you baptise then the child will convert with you and be considered Catholic for admissions purposes. However it would be tricky to explain why you're converting having just baptised a dc c of e.

If you're serious then convert asap and then older dc will automatically go with you. If you leave it until they're sevenish then the church will make them convert in their own right.

My ds school year spaces are all filled with Catholics. This year a few Catholics didn't get into this school of choice because they were baptised in a different parish to the school so would automatically get a space in the other catholic school in our town ( which isn't as good)
The only way to guarantee a space here is to get your child baptised in the church that is involved with the school. It would mean talking to the priest and convincing him that your not getting child baptised because you want the good school though.

I really cannot imagine why you would want your child to attend a school with such poor family values - specifically breaking up siblings and the attendant disruption to the family. Sibling priority is there for a reason.

Putting a religion ahead of the kids in the school shows to me how little they actually think of the kids in their care.

tiggytape I fully agree with siblings not within a certain distance - so if it was siblings within X walking distance as a higher priority to stop the moving out of region. Of course that is also in the interest of the child, as commuting is an extremely lousy thing to do.

I was the only non-catholic at my primary school and my parents chose it for the exact same reasons as you have for your son - it just "felt" right. It was a great school BUT it was really hard being the odd one out.

It was all fine until it came to confirmation time (Y4 I think it must have been). I had to do all the prep and then on the day watch my friends in their pretty dresses and smart suits get confirmed whilst I sat in the choir and sang. No issues with that. It was the days afterwards that I had to listen to everyone talk about their parties, look at their photos etc. Further humiliation arose when the class were asked to come to the front at assembly. They were all called out one by one to receive a gift bible from the priest and then sit down. They didn't have one for me and I was left standing at the front like a lemon. There was no malice or anything and they were very inclusive. It's just sometimes I got forgotten as they had never had anyone in the same situation.

Not being able to take bread in school mass after confirmation was also a bit "stand out". My class would all file up and I'd be left sat there in an empty row standing out like a sore thumb.

Then all my friends went off to Catholic secondary schools, none of which I got a place at because I wasn't Catholic.

I think a parent knows which school is right for their child but just be aware that there are things your child will not be able to do if they are not baptised. Catholicism and being C of E are two very different beasts and whilst the school will be as inclusive as possible, just be prepared for some moments in the future when they just can't join in.