Is phonics ability different to reading ability?

[Thomasina76]

DS2 is in year 1 and is in the top group for reading. He is on ORT level 12 and chapter books. He was on ORT level 9 but after the phonics test in May he was put onto Level 12 and chapter books so I assumed he had done well. Just found out that they are putting the class into sets for phonics and that DS is not in top set. His other friends who used to be in the top set for reading are in it but DS is not and seems to be in a middle or low group with kids who are on ORT level 4-5 for reading. I am completely confused as I why he is in a lower group for phonics whilst in the top group for reading. I thought they were one and the same thing. I will ask the teacher on Monday of course but it's going to drive me mad all weekend.

Yes catkind I've met a few children (less than 5 in 30 years) who like my son can accurately read but not decode all of them autistic with hyperlexia as comorbidity

Irvine my son was reading the FT and NATO publications in nursery and reception and I was reading Monserrat, London, Babington and Gray when I started school.

Mrz, I know about your ds.( I remember from past post.)
My comment to catkind was to express my shock and dismay to her bringing your personal things to the argument.

Thank you

What argument? :( I thought we were having an interesting and friendly discussion and raised something mrz has frequently shared herself which I thought would be okay in that context. I'm very sorry if that caused offense. Just shows how tone doesn't come across the internet. I'm not in the mood for an argument so bye.

Cat, sorry my wording wasn't good.
By "argument", I didn't mean as in dispute, I meant more like"topic", or subject matter".
But i still felt like it was an personal attack. (Sorry if it wasn't.)

Truly didn't mean to attack anyone. I just meant to defer to mrz's more immediate experience of non phonics readers, as my example is only second hand (friend's dd). Apology stands if it came across wrong.

I wasn't offended but appreciate Irvine thinking of my feelings

My son was hugely disadvantaged by his lack of phonic knowledge and the failure of those (including me) who ignored it.

My ds1 is 10. He recently did a dyslexia screening where the came out with a reading age above the scale, which went up to 12) but a phonic knowledge age of 5! He is not dyslexic, that was his only low score. He passed the phonics test in Year 1, so I can only assume he has forgotten it all because he personally doesn't use it to read.

"tuh" 🙉

The phonics screening check is very basic but many schools see passing it as the end of phonic teaching meaning lots still not taught and children have huge gaps in knowledge.

Never heard of a 'phonic knowledge age'. I'd be wary of those test results.

Who was doing the screening and why?

Ok, spoke to the teacher this morning who told me that there are in fact 2 top sets and that DS had been put in one due to the "dynamics" of being with his two best friends (his two best friends are in the other set and they are as thick as thieves and spend a lot of time chatting etc). She said his reading is very good and that he scored 40 out of 40 in the phonics test. Phew! All that worry for nothing.

Lol, sometimes it's the obvious answer - good news OP :)

Sorry, it was phonic segmentation, not phonic knowledge. He also scored well below age for the rhyme section, suggesting relatively poor phonic recognition. He couldn't do the segmentation at all, and I've noticed that before. It was a dyslexia screening carried out by the senco. I am a teacher, and didn't think he was dyslexic, but he reverses all of the numbers that it's possible to reverse, and school wanted to rule it out.

Segmentation suggests poor spelling, not poor reading - which fits the profile you suggested.

His spelling is really good too.