Position in class

[janinlondon]

This may be a completely stupid question, and apologies to anyone who thinks its unimportant/overly competitive/too demanding etc, but do you know where in your child's class your child is positioned for any particular subject? (ie: 3rd out of 25 in terms of reading age, or top 15% of class in maths). Another Mum has asked me if my school do this, and I wondered about what was normal? Not interested in your childrens' actual positions, you understand, just whether you get a report with this sort of info in it?

Not that I'm aware of in our primary school.

In fact the teachers don't even usually tell you if they are in the top group etc, by year one the kids seem to have worked this out for themselves.

I wonder if the school actually have a list though?

We don't get that info from the school at the moment (Y1, private). Can't imagine that we'd ever get it from this School, wouldn't really go with their ethos IYSWIM.

I did think it would be fairly unusual....

I am either missig the cues or our school doesn't do it

Not so far . For ds' exam results in the summer (end of yr3) we had his score and the "mean"(ie. the score of the middle child int he class) as a comparison.

No. We are aware from verbal feedback that they are very pleased with ds, and we know he's bright, but relative to the rest of the class - no. Not verbally, nor written.
All parents were aware that this year they are streamed for maths into two groups, so you can deduce a little from that if you want.
The school's ethos is very much about teamwork and doing your own personal best, not about competing directly with individuals.

No but sussed out groups by asking DD which group gets the hardest work etc.

At our school in reception and year 1 they are in 5 different ability groups for literacy and numeracy. As well as sitting on these tables each group is listed on the wall and their names are in order of ability therefore 'top of the class' is name one on the first list. In year 2 they are put in different groups for literacy and numeracy therefore acknowledging differing abilities in different subjects. It has taken me 3 years to suss this all out out by being nosey and scrutinising lists on walls etc. The teacher doesn't tell you their position but when I have asked questions they have been fairly open. I don't like this system at all and the school would probably say the children aren't aware as they just see themselves as being in blue group or green group. I don't question dss about it as I don't want to draw their attention too much to it, but am sure the children are very much aware of the system and their position in it. I have concerns about the detrimental effect it could have on self-esteem. This system seems typical of all the schools in our area having talked to friends with kids at different schools.

The kids all kow where they are in class by Yr 1 IME. Even when they mix up the tables, call the groups colours or whatever, they know!!

Last term my dd's class had mixed tables (well away from friends) but this term they have definitley put them in ability groups - the top 4 furthest away from the teacher and the ones who need most help nearest. It helps dd as she is getting pulled along by a gilr who is a bit quicker then she is (older too) as dd tends to daydream abit!

We don't get this in a report or anything but at parents' evening I have asked in the past - just to get an idea of where he is sitting (she told me he had done really well in his maths test and I asked what 'really well' meant - she gave me a % that he got and I asked again 'well what does that mean' because I'm nosey and because although it was a great score I wanted to know if that was what the rest of the class were getting, if that's kind of what she expects or whether that's really very good and above expectations).

I go in to read and have read with the whole class so I know where ds with regard to that as well.

Plus, they are in colour groups and these switch about slightly for maths work and literacy work (teacher told me this and also ds has, on occasion said 'so and so joined our group today for maths'). Based on the table he's on and who he is on with, it's pretty obvious where he is.

So yes, I know pretty much where he is in the class but not because it's information presented to us clearly in any sort of report.

Never been hugely bothered. My main concerns have been that they are happy, socialable and doing their best. Had a mum who was more than bothered.. she was the bane of my life. That was in DS1's class and DS1 was streets ahead of his class... but they liked him cos he was great at football.

Pablo dd's yr 1 class sounds as if it works simiarly. They shuffle around each half term on named tables and seem to vary slightly for maths.

In both the DSs' classes they are grouped into reading groups, literacy groups and numeracy groups. I have been told by other parents that the names on the lists within the groups are in ability order, but certainly for reading in DS2's class that order doesn't tally with how the children read, so it may not be true. Or it may be done on the basis of one test score rather than an overall judgment of ability.

Higher up the school they divulge test scores but they don't tell you how highly other children scored - which is reasonable. DS2's teacher uses lots of vague language like 'towards the top' .

But it is pretty obvious which is the 'top table' for maths and literacy.

That's why it's funny in a way. I can fully understand why they don't want to say their position, but most people work it out anyway and if you ask, they don't say 'I can't tell you'!

Ds1's teacher, when pushed about the maths thing, said 'top x' - ha ha!

But x was a number iyswim!

I've had children in school since 1980 and I don't think I've ever been told their exact position in class. Occasionally a teacher has mentioned something about 'the top half' but that's about it. It's usually possible to work out roughly where they are in relation to others, though.

When we do the reports we always get a few parents who ask why we don't put 3rd out of 25 etc on them 'like they used to'
Oddly enough this is never asked by the parents of children who would be 25th out of 25

Well, when I pushed a little for something more specific on DS2's literacy, she said 'towards the top of the top'! I know at least one boy in DS2's class scored 100% on the numeracy assessment they did (not DS2) and the mother was still only told he was 'towards the top'.

I know it doesn't matter, but ever since my friend told me the names within the groups were in order I've been surreptitiously studying the lists in both boys' classes. I realise that the position of my DSs' names on a list in primary school means nothing as far as their future happiness or even success is concerned....

When I was at school (many years ago) some of my teachers did put class position on the report, and also the average mark for the test. I've never seen anything like that these days though.

You sometimes get more of an idea verbally at parents' evening though.

studies have shown that it can be counter productive to give children their 'place' in the class (although I realise that they work things out for themselves)

Children d least well when they are given a mark out of 10 (or whatever) and their position in the class. They do a little better when they are given marks/position and a comment, they do best when just given a comment, eg, 'You have done well at X, to improve you need to do Y'

Anyone interested should google for 'Beyond the black box'

Now I'm worried. Ds, in Reception, is on a table with a little girl whose mother admits she does nothing with the girl at home (has a tiny baby as well) and didn't even know they were supposed to learn words they were given.

I have no idea what the other kids' levels are except for one little boy who has been given Year 1 and 2 words to learn. His mother is a teacher and incorporates learning into play and he is obviously very bright.

I definitely wouldn't worry at reception, especialy in the early part of the year. Any "setting" of work will only typically happen from this point onwards. Teachers will often go with say age as the initial sorting factor.

I have never asked and wouldn't really want to know tbh. From my own education background I would say that dd is above average and I know thatshe gets more homework than other kids butI ahve not soughtthis information it is just whatI ahve picked up from playground chatter and taling with her teacher. As long as she is happy atschool and has support with any issues thatmay crop up it wouldn't worry me.