I probably didn't handle this very well but I don't think the head did either

[MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig]

Long story short, head was dd1's teacher in yr 1&2 when dd1 was being bullied by a classmate. We had a few conversations about this girl. Dd1 is now in yr 4 and the bullying continues, albeit in a low grade everyday casual cruelty type of way. It escalated last week when the girl hit dd on two separate occasions. She was apparently spoken to after the first incident but clearly not enough because she then did it again.

I have had enough of dd being subjected to this girl. I told her if it happened again to bloody well hit her back. I don't think she would to be honest but she knows she'd have my support if she did.

I mentioned it to the head in passing and she didn't know anything about either incident. I told her what I'd said to dd and she was horrified and said she couldn't possibly encourage that. Fair enough, obviously not, but I've got no faith in the schools ability to deal with bullies. Children have left over the schools inability to deal with bullies.

Dd now informs me that the head took assembly yesterday and told the whole school that anyone that hits back would find themselves in worse trouble that the hitter.

I am a bit worried by this. I don't think the head should be telling children that they can't defend themselves. Obviously I'm not suggesting that they all go around fighting but to tell children that they might be victims of bullying and be punished for it seems a little off to me.

I want to say something to the head but I don't know where to start. If anywhere. Am I overreacting? I just don't know if I ought to let it go now.

Yep rumbling - children can be quite good at policing themselves as a group (up to a point of course, children need to be able to go to an adult for help when a situation is beyond them) but sometimes it seems adults intervening too much can make this impossible, and make the victims more helpless because they end up stuck between a rock (the bully) and a hard place (the adults who can't be everywhere at once and yet tell them that if they stand up to the bully they will then be just as bad as the bully/ a bully themselves).

As someone who worked in schools for many years, I will be enrolling my own children in Judo (or similar) and they will be told to defend themselves. I saw years of intervention aimed to stop various bullies, but it never really worked. The times a child stopped bullying, were when their victim (or the victim's friend) retaliated.

My experience of school, and my husband's, was similar. He was the child who hit back to defend his friend. He got in trouble but they were all left alone after that. I also remember retaliating - with a cup of cold water in the bully's face. They dissolved into floods of tears and I was quite disgusted that they couldn't take what they dished out. They left everyone alone after that.

After months of bullying I told my DD to hit once and hit hard!

She did - landed one on his nose - he's left her alone since

He's moved on to someone else -

So despite intervention - anti bullying lessons, nurture,, empathy, bullying online lessons - he hasn't changed -

They haven't stopped him - now he's bigger - year 10 - he's put one lad in hospital - he's still at school -

I have no faith!

There is a bully in my youngest son's class - he doesn't have special needs but I'd think he might be a psychopath if he wasn't so young he is charming and popular and very, very intelligent and articulate, and he picks a victim and befriends them and then systematically destroys their self esteem by telling them they are a loser and telling other children not to play with them - he pushes and shoves but doesn't hit and gaslights by doing things like shoving the them hard and then getting up in their face and repeating that they shoved him and should apologise. He is very sneaky and rarely gets spotted by the teachers.

He picked on my youngest for a while, following this exact routine, and the staff did their best but he is clever enough to be sweetness and light when he knows he is being watched and not to do anything that would attract the attention of a teacher from across the playground - I am very glad there is no policy against refusing to play with anyone at least, as part of this this boy's modus operandi is to insinuate himself into a group playing together and then take the game over and isolate, mock and push out which ever child has initiated the game in the first place. He's moved on from my youngest mostly, to pick on another boy - I have now seen him in action, and seen the biggest, oldest boy in the class (who seems to be the only one not charmed by him) step in and give the bully a thorough dressing down, but its been a long time coming and only one kid seems to have the self confidence and perceptiveness to deal with him - he'll have moved up next year and I wish I knew how to get my own DC3 to behave the same way and take on that role!

Yanbu. She should be dealing with the bullying, not the victim's reaction to it.

I would approach the governors, admitting you didn't dole out the best advice (though we've all done it and I wouldn't be sorry if my dd hit a bully ) but the head is not dealing with this effectively. This bully needs more than a talking to. She needs proper consequences

only one kid seems to have the self confidence and perceptiveness to deal with him

That's because we teach our children to be nice, play nice, include, accept.

Not everyone does this

Which is why they get away with it - it's not victim blaming - no one ever should have to put up with it -

Other children are not colateral damage for a child's SN or needs, if you have a child known to hit out due their needs then you analyse and manage the situation so the child doesnt have the opportunity. Expecting the other children to just put up with getting hurt is not inclusion.

Yes, to some extent. But when the children are in schools it's the staff who should be doing this, parents can't as they're not there.

Completely agree though the opportunity for harm should not arise, and if lashing out occurs because needs aren't being met then it should be avoided.

Sorry Bishop I put that badly. I meant staff: if you are caring for a child who you know will resort to hitting out when they're triggered then it's your job to do the analysis and figure out how you everyone in the situation safe. That's inclusion, that is the job. I agree, it's absolutely not the parents' responsibility!

Thought you did - just checking

Where my Aunty works they have a report system

Level one - may include hitting biting etc

Level two - cheeky disobedient -

Etc

Each child is given a tick box letter to send home -

It has - No action - see teacher - see head etc

Parents sign and return the form

It works because kids don't get away with the behaviour -

It is not bullying to aviod a child that is known to be agressive and hits out. It would be a very odd school indeed that would see this as an issue to be tackled above keeping all children safe. First things first. I asked if my child could not sit next to the one that poked her with a pencil all the time. He did have behavioural problems and she was moved but of course someone had to sit next to him! That was not bullying, it as just poor behaviour from a child who was pretty bright but was poorly adjusted to school and ther requirements "nice" behaviour. Of course his parents were upset when children avoided him but this is inevitable and is a lesson to be learned. Children will automatically play with children they get on with and are like them. If you hit other children, then you are likely to be on your own. It is only bullying when there is no reason for the child to be left out and ignored.

Any good school would insist that a child that hits others is monitored very closely at play times and lunchbreak. Where I used to be a Governor, the Head did it herself. If schools have poor behaviour that is putting others in danger, they must deal with it (even if the child is SEN). Most parents would not know if a Yr 1 child is SEN or not either, so rushing to judge is premature. SEN does include behaviour problems, it is not just about learning difficulties and there are nurture groups and specialist teachers that can advise on behaviour strategies. Every so often a school may get a child that is very poorly adjusted and does not know right from wrong and shows no remorse. There are Ed Psychs available for guidance too and it may be that such children need a special school. People teaching their children to fight back because they did is a pretty poor role model in my view. Would they be encouraged to hit any other child with SEN?