education psychologist

[drwitch]

Anybody got any hints or advice about how to get a private consultation. Ds (11)really struggles at dealing with things he finds hard (even though he can do them really well when he calms down). - Gets either really angry or really teary and neither response is when he moves up to secondary school. Its making him happy and stopping him learning at the rate of his peers. Not looking for a formal diagnosis as such but more some help in teaching him to deal with these feelings

If a school decides to ignore a report and, as a result, finds itself defending a discrimination case or dealing with an Ombudsman complaint, absolutely it has to give a reason if it wants to avoid an adverse finding.

And where is your evidence Flanks?

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/398815/SEND_Code_of_Practice_January_2015.pdf

Augusta if the school is providing for the child's needs but not following guidance from someone like Flanks there wouldn't be a case.

Your evidence is mine mrz.

My evidence is also the 2010 Equality Act which states that people with specific learning needs are a protected group.

My evidence is the 2014 SEND Act, which affirms the voice of the parents and children as essential.

I am unsure what justification you have for your opinion that schools have no obligation to do anything at all with a private report, because you don't expand on it. I know you are a very experienced and successful primary practitioner and I am not here for a pissing contest.

The evidence you offer is beyond clear that schools are required to engage with parents with regards to special educational needs. Therefore some response to a report is required. The school does not have to agree, or make any changes in provision, but it must respond in some form even if only to say so and give reasons.

If a school does not do this they have failed to meet the guidance you link, they are also not meeting their obligations under the 2010 and 2014 acts of law.

It may be that your point is what I have stated above, that a school is not obliged to make changes. But you are suggesting that they do not even have to acknowledge or respond to the report, which is wholly incorrect. If this is a crossed wire then fair enough, but if you engaged in this discussion with more than single sentence, unexplained answers, it would be far more beneficial.

Getting a private report was life-changing for us. For ds it gave him a piece of paper that said you aren't stupid or lazy just differently able, for me it gave a path to follow to insist he was taught in a way he could manage. We had it done at the end of junior school and he went up to secondary with it. He would never have had a referral from the school as they couldn't see a problem. It was expensive I sold everything I could on Amazon and ebay to raise the money and would do it again in a heartbeat.

Where have I said the child's needs won't be met by the school?

I receive reports from a variety of professionals and often their advice conflicts ...do I follow all blindly (counterproductive) or do I sit down with the parents and teachers to come up with a plan based on knowledge of the child gained over a long period of time not a few hours of assessment?

Finally a more detailed response! I don't disagree with you at all. But previously you said not even a response is required, which is what I took issue with.

For info, every assessment I carry out is with the schools knowledge and a parent request for the child's performance to be shared with me in advance. I also ask the class teacher or Tutor to complete a short questionnaire, I have never yet had a school refuse to do this and as a result the dialogue is always productive.

What you describe is certainly an appropriate response, which I would have no issue with. But to ignore a report because it is independent is certainly the beginning of potential discrimination, and until now you appeared to be defending such behaviour.

I would add that a report should give a fairly clear underlying explanation of cognitive reasons to explain teacher and parent observations. In my work with older students, I have experienced no shortage of child blaming (sadly) for what has in fact been poor teaching over a period of time and a refusal by schools to make even basic checks or adjustments for a pupil.

The vast majority of teachers are very sensible and will fully take into account a private report. In my case, when I said that I had concerns about my child's difficulties with literacy, her teacher welcomed the fact that I was getting an EP report because there would have been a delay of at least two terms before the school could get one and they were not sure whether her difficulties were due to dyslexia or something else.

Yes, there are a few teachers who will be obstinate and will insist that they know best and they are meeting the child's needs even when they blatantly are not. I know of a case where the school was absolutely insistent that a particular child had no difficulties, they were meeting his needs and the mother was just exaggerating - the teacher was strongly suggesting that she had Munchausen's. They did their best to make life difficult when it came to assessments of the child, stoutly denied against the clearest possible evidence that he had serious sensory and social communication problems, and refused to support a request for statutory assessment. When the parents won a tribunal appeal against the refusal of assessment, the school started suggesting that the very fact that they had gone to tribunal and not accepted their advice made them unfit parents. Not long afterwards, this child who the teacher said was absolutely fine and had no problems was permanently excluded by the school. The LA finally issued a statement but was wholly unable to find any local mainstream or special school prepared to say they could meet the child's obvious serious needs, and he ended up in a residential special school. Fortunately at that point things turned round for him and he's doing well, but he has a lot of ground to make up in terms of what he lost when the original school was doing nothing to help him.

I am thinking about getting private Ed psych assessment for my ds. But it's purely because to rule out/find out if there's some underlying issues. I may give copy to school, but if I did I don't expect school to act on it. Yes sometimes I think the school is not doing best for my child, but the teacher has other 29 children. Every child is a priority, not just mine.
To do best for my child is my responsibility. The school maybe able to help, but not always, and it's understandable. But I know teachers are doing best they can for individual child.(I hope)

My son's secondary school refused to follow any of the recommendations from 3 different LEA educational psychologists (I even offered to pay for equipment suggested but they said they couldn't be responsible for it)
They ignored the recommendations from 2 NHS psychiatrists and as he didn't have a statement it was deemed they were fully meeting his needs.

So do you really think they would follow the advice of a private "expert"? I think you're being extremely naive.

Them behaving poorly does not mean they behaved correctly or legally.

If you wish to brand me as naive and regard your experience as more valid than mine then that is up to you. However, it is clear from your above post that you value your experience, and I would thank you to respect mine as I have yours.

I am a professional, as are you. I have trained considerably as a teacher, as have you. I have also trained considerably in this area as a specialist, I work, write and teach every day in thisarea. None of this makes me correct or 'right'. All I have done in this discussion is point clearly to the legal obligations with regards to the OP and challenged incorrect statements.

They behaved legally.

I'm sorry but I don't see how your insistence that you are correct and everyone who has said something different is wrong.

Is respecting experience or expertise.

I'll do over then.

This entire discussion began in response to the statement that a school can completely ignore a report and does not even have to respond to it.

Ignoring and non response would clearly be counter to the SEN Code of Practice, the 2010 Equality Act and the 2014 SEND Act, because it would mean that the school fails to show any form of reasonable response or reasonable adjustment.

For the sake of clarity. Response does not mean they have to implement any recommendations, but if LEA/Ofsted/Ombudsman or a legal challenge was brought against the school and they had nothing to demonstrate compliance, then they would lose for the reasons stated above.

If the school can demonstrate compliance, that they are meeting all reasonable needs, and that implementing the recommendations would be an unreasonable adjustment then this is absolutely fine. However, they should (to some extent) then support the parent in making representations to the LA, or at least inform them of what they can do themselves. Again, doing none of this could be interpreted as discriminatory under the above acts and guidance, and if they did this as well as make no response to a report, then it would almost certainly be considered discriminatory.

Legislation has moved on a lot since the 90s, and in the last 3 years it has accelerated considerably in this area. People with specific learning difficulties are a protected group under the equality act. Therefore, all public bodies must demonstrate that they have made reasonable adjustments and that they are compliant with the Acts. They are legally required to demonstrate this compliance in any and all inspections.

If they ignore a report completely, with no response, then they are not demonstrating any compliance.

If they acknowledge the report, but state that they do not intend to implement the recommendations because they believe that the students needs are being met, then this is fine. At least now a dialogue is taking place (required under 2014 SEND), and it also allows the parent to respond appropriately.

If a student required the use of a wheelchair, the law requires all public bodies to make themselves accessible. Legally, a person with a specific learning disability is classified in the same way. This means that the school must make all reasonable adjustments, which requires that they give reasons for not making adjustments if challenged.

No one in this thread, including you, has disputed any of the above. What the law is, and how certain schools behave, may well be different things. As I said earlier, part of the problem is that some schools are poorly trained in SEN, some leadership is often poor, and parents more often than not depend on schools to know what they can/can't do. So if a school misinforms, and a parent does not have any other resource for knowledge, poor practice will prevail.

But only completely negative comment came from supplysam, who hasn't returned to defend her statement. I don't think mrz said that school always ignore private assessments.

Interesting discussion.

In the end, we walked away from the legalities and fights and home educated. This was due to schools ignoring advice form professionals. Not independent, NHS. school, no matter what the law is, will do what they want.

Semantics Flanks!

irvine101, as a matter of law the school has a duty to use its best endeavours to meet your child's needs. If it can't do so because the teacher hasn't got time, then it should be looking at getting in more support, if necessary applying for further funding from the LA for the purpose.

Interesting that you dismiss a carefully argued and evidenced statement of the law as mere "semantics", mrz.

If your son's school ignored the recommendations of three educational psychologists and two psychiatrists, they certainly were not acting lawfully. Under both the old and new law, schools have an obligation to use their best endeavours to meet children's needs, and they couldn't conceivably argue that they were doing so by ignoring expert advice in such a wholesale manner. I know it's hindsight, but in your position I would have asked for statutory assessment on the basis that there was cast-iron evidence that the school was unable to meet your son's needs from the resources available to them.

They were acting perfectly within the law as they were meeting his educational needs which is the whole point. The recommendations in the reports are just that recommendations and schools are under no obligation to follow them.
My "semantics" comment refers to the chosen interpretation of what I said

Oh and with hindsight I'm very pleased they ignored lots of the advice from the educational psychologists who were way off the mark as it turned out.

If they were refusing to follow recommendations of experts, on the face of it they weren't meeting your child's needs: and, once again, schools are under a legal duty to use their best endeavours to meet SEN, so if they refuse to follow experts' advice they can't claim to be using their best endeavours. Furthermore, refusal to give support recommended by experts is clearly discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. I really don't know why you keep ignoring that.

I wonder if you were so glad at the time that they were ignoring the advice of five separate professionals?

No at the time I was unhappy and complained (which is how I know they weren't breaking the law) but after researching the advice I concluded that the "experts" EPs needed to do their own research as very outdated methods recommended.