Moving primary school children from Scottish to English system

[dontrunwithscissors]

We're currently based in Scotland:
DD1 is almost 9 and in P4. She's an April birthday (2007) so one of the oldest in her class.
DD2 is 6 and in P1. She's a late January birthday (2010) & would have been one of the youngest in the class. We decided to hold her back a year, particularly because she has speech problems and is still receiving speech therapy--this is due to hearing problems when she was younger. There are no other educational needs.

I'm looking at the possibility of a job in England, to start September. I'm wondering how they would transfer over into the English system. I'm guessing it would be reasonably simple with DD1 in that she would go into P5.

However, I don't know where DD2 would fit in. P1? or P2? If anyone has advice/experience, I'd be very grateful.

Lightbulb you could definitely do that where I live , not only that but the schools are outstanding . The 3 bed would be small though .You could go 5 miles away , still good non church schools and get a bigger 3 bed

Many thanks for those extra comments. It's helped clarify the situation. FWIW, my DD's school is rated as one of the best in the city. Last year (P3), DD1 had 35 children in her class. DD1 has 30 in her class. Maximum class sizes only seem to apply when it's such a shit school that nobody wants to go there.

Teachers are constantly leaving and it takes ages to get replacements. There were a few weeks after DD1's teacher had left that she had 2 or 3 different teachers covering per day. I'm not remotely impressed with the Scottish education system.

P1 has a max class size of 24, p2-3 30, 4-7 33.

My dd's actual class size is 18.

Ds had class sizes of 18-31 (most years 20-25) throughout primary. Now 20-30 in secondary depending on subject.

That's all in/near a city. I wouldn't consider moving to the sticks.

25 not 24

That's the maximum size they're supposed to be, but doesn't reflect what's happening on the ground. I'm also in a city.

Agree with posters that many schools in Scotland have big class sizes. It's not all tiny 18 pupil classes. My dd's P5 class has 34 with no TA. My P3 ds only has 25 in his class but that's because it is a composite class.

I'm not impressed with the Scottish education system even though I really like their school and teachers. It doesn't seem to stretch pupils and allows the more able to coast whilst they deal with the more challenging pupils of which there are many in our inner city school.

I personally would wait to see what the fall out of the White Paper down in England before deciding to move.
I live in Scotland and am about to go back to London to train as a teacher. I plan on coming straight home to Scotland when I'm done, I'd rather teach up here than down there right now!

TheTroubleWithAngels I'm from there originally (8 years up here now), and so applied to Scottish courses and English ones as DP and I have considered moving back.
I was offered places at everywhere I applied to in England but rejected up here. Since I can do my probationer year here and come back on holidays I'm just going to do it down south.
If I could have done it here I would have done!

People think it's great up here because students don't pay fees, but the reality is that we're not getting enough funding to cover our costs. Our teaching grant has been cut for the second year. I hate the idea of fees, but it's the only way to stop Scottish universities becoming a joke. Except the SNP have made such a song and dance about fees that they're never going to do a U turn. They'd rather see students attend universities without staff, where all those who can flee have done so. English uni's are also facing problems, but they are recruiting and paying much better wages because they're eager to offer the best quality teaching.

Light bulb. In my parent's village you can get housing from around £50k and gave the choice of two schools, one outstanding, one good. Neither affiliated to the church.
Although there is the possibility of not getting in, in reality it tends to work out that most people have a preference and it's about half each way so it's generally pretty much everyone gets their first preference.
The Catholics go to the next village along and that is church based.

But even round here (southeast) there are a few houses under £200k, not in brilliant condition, but they do exist, on our estate. If you're on this,estate you will get in to one of 2 infant schools, both of which are outstanding. And the juniors which us outstanding.

Overall I think the English system is better for those at either the very top or very bottom of the ability spectrum. Ime the best English state schools are superior to the best Scottish state schools. But I think the worst English state school are worse than the worst Scottish state schools.

For an average child, as most are,
I think the Scottish system wins.

As forthcoming son good schools- good primaries are ten a penny. It's the secondaries which a remote of a gamble.

Are more nor a remote!

OP I would suggest you just go with the relevant year groups for two good reasons: first English schools are used to a wide range of abilities and maturities in one class, I have seen children with no/very little English adapt just fine. Second if there are an SEN problems they will be more easily picked up and helped in the correct age cohort, and it's better to be picked up and different strategies be used rather than just more of the same.

I did it the other way round, England to Scotland, way back in the late 90s. Both of mine found the work much harder in their Scottish school - the school they'd gone to in England was a laid-back village primary, and they transfered into a much bigger, more formal environment. To be honest, I don't think differences in curriculum or standards were much of a problem for them, they were more fazed by the change from a very small family-like environment where everyone knew everyone else, to a bigger institution where they felt a bit lost. Their biggest gripe was that we moved during the summer holidays and they were outraged at starting back in the middle of August having only had 4 weeks' holiday - I didn't hear the end of it for months!

I made the move from Scotland to England several years ago, the op is right about SNP destroying the education system. The English system might get some bad press from teachers who want more money but they must be doing something right if "in England 54% of pupils achieve 5 GCSEs at grades A*-C but in Scotland only 38% reach the equivalent standard". Your DC's will be fine in the relevant year groups, teachers here are great.

I moved to England last summer, I preferred the schools in Scotland. The class sizes were smaller and the school had more than 1 teacher in each class not full of assistants and no teacher in sight.

I'm moving back this year as long as we can find a rental big and cheap enough. right now with the festival coming up folks heading up from England will be swindled into paying double or triple rent for their accommodation. i'll wait for summer to finish ;)

btw OP our kids couldn't get a school place not even in catchment or outside catchment they were home from September until the following year. my 3 year old hasn't been able to get into nursery shes almost 4 now been home since September last year. I moved quite a bit in Scotland I always managed to get into a school even if not catchment so I don't have a positive view .

in England 54% of pupils achieve 5 GCSEs at grades A-C but in Scotland only 38% reach the equivalent standard*

This isn't a fair comparison.

GCSEs are easier than nat 5s (the old standard grades) hence English students doing more of them.

Also because of the difference in school starting age English students are on average 6 months older when they sit these exams. (Most English students are 16 when they sit GCSEs but most Scottish students are 15)

Anyone I knew who moved from England to Scotland had to move down a year and be the oldest in the class. (80s/90s)

Key words were "equivalent standard"

kata sorry, can you explain what you mean by your DC not getting a school place? Surely they had to be given somewhere to attend, even if out of catchment?

Kata should have fought, and maybe posted here. As if the LA didn't offer her DC a school place somewhere within a "reasonable" amount of time then they failed their legal duty and could have been forced to do so.
LAs can force an otherwise full school to make a place available.

(BTW this is part of the reason even conservative counsellors are against every school being an academy - as they will retain this responsibility with less/no power to enforce it.). But this will not be a problem for you OP

English uni's are also facing problems, but they are recruiting and paying much better wages because they're eager to offer the best quality teaching.

Well, good luck with that - most English universities are paying the minimum they can and piling a very high teaching load on academics, while expecting them to also do the jobs administrators used to do and to produce terrific research for the next REF. TEF is far less of a factor than the REF in hiring decisions. Salaries may look higher, but not when you take into account the cost of living. And most departments don't see the 9k per year: they are being asked to cut everything to the bone and in practice their income is down year by year.

dontrunwithscissors we moved june last year my kids started school few weeks before xmas i think or the new year . Thats long to wait no? 9&8 yr olds got in first. A few weeks later the 5 yr old got preference as her siings were in already.

The 3 yr oldhas still got no nursery place she'll be 4 in April. Only 1 nursery near us the rest are so far it doesnt seem worth the 2hrs. The primary my kids go to diesbt hVe a nursery attached so it would be another journey a distance away we couldnt manage it.

We r movibg back to scotland after fringe festival hopwfully we get axrental. In which case my youngest will get into nursery for a few months at least, willbe good for her to be independent and socialise. Nursery is for 3-4 yr olds over there. I could keep her back a yr but i dont think she needs it shes wuite a feisty madam

Just got back to check this
kata, that's terrible.

disquit, that's no difference to what's happening in Scotland. The difference is that English uni's are hiring for academic positions, whereas Scottish uni's are getting rid of people.