Manchester state vs private education (Moor Allerton Prep/MHSG-Manchester High School for Girls Prep Dep)

[confusedparent2016]

Hello, we would like our daughter to have an all-round good education, in a multi-cultural setting, with plenty of opportunities in dance, music, drama, sports and languages from a young age. We want her to become a happy, confident and resilient young lady with many opportunities, and not to be the subject of any bullying.

We are thinking about Manchester High School for Girls for her when she goes to high school which is close to us, or a free Grammar School further away in Trafford.

We are trying to decide if to send her to the local state primary school (currently Outstanding by Oftsted), or straight away in a Prep School (Moor Allerton) or the Prep Department of Manchester High School for Girls, to increase her chance of getting into MHSG or a Grammar School.

Despite liking Moor Allerton Prep School, the closest 2 options would be a mix of the local state school and MHSG: eg state nursery/school till 4, 7 or 11 years old, then MHSG from 4, 7 or 11 respectively. If she stayed at the state primary school till 11, she could also try the entrance exams for the Trafford Grammar Schools.

However we wonder how hard it would be for her to transition, the earlier she moves, the easier it would be we think in terms of settling in and entrance criteria, but of course it would cost more too. Also, we would like her to be in a mixed education setting as long as possible before going for instance to MHSG (I like the school and the opportunities it offers, but worry about bullying/nastiness between girls etc).

1. Have you got experience of moving from state nursery/primary school to MHSG or a Trafford Grammar School, and what are your experiences please?

1. If a child is bright, is it enough to support them with reading and school work, and do the Bond exam papers etc together, in order to be at the same level as children that went to a Prep School? If a child is less bright academically, but more artistic or sporty for instance, would they be better off at an excellent state primary school or at MHSG where they may be helped more, but could also fall behind other girls?

1. However, would it just be easier and less stressful to send her to MHSG at 4 till 18 years for instance? Would she miss out by not having male school friends at such a young age?

1. Does anyone know if MHSG takes a good proportion of children from State education?

Thank you for your help :)

Where do you live? Without being snobbish you are going to get a very different intake if you are comparing New Moston with Didsbury? You also need to be realistic about pre school and after school, reception children are often tired after a 9-3 school day, you may be better with a child minder and after school provision, rather than your husband dropping off.

The fact that she is an adopted child gives you a myriad of options and rightly so, but just because you have these choices, doesn't mean you have to avail yourself of them. In terms of primary school, as long as your local ones aren't absolutely awful, there's a lot to be said for local friends, support network etc. high school is different as they are more independent by then.

Without the adoption privilege, you'd have next to no chance of any of the Didsbury schools ( with the exception of maybe St Caths if you are RC) because the oversubscription/catchment issues are unreal unless you are living very close by.

Sorry off to bed but just a couple of quick points. If you want her to retain her RC faith or grow up in the faith the an RC school would offer her the sacramental programme if reconciliation, first communion and confirmation. They normally expect regular attendance at Sunday mass though especially in the sacramental year (y3) However if you explained that your dd is RC and you are not then they will be very accommodating to ensure she remains a Catholic. And yes, most CofE schools would offer her a broadly Christian ethos but it's more by osmosis that actually religious instruction and she would not receive the sacraments. Though to my mind, that's not a reason to chose an RC school you didn't like.
Oh and Didsbury is obviously still Manchester authority so if you moved there you'd still receive your post adoption support. I have 2 sets of friends in Didsbury. One used Did Cof E and the other Beaver rd. both extremely happy although their older children are now at secondary school and their younger ones y5&6. If you're further in than Didsbury then discount Stockport grammar as it will be an utter nightmare in rush hour traffic. In fact in morning rush hour, Cheadle Hulme would probably be quicker going south on A34 in the opposite direction from the heavy traffic. Whereas SGS would need you to access the A6 which is a nightmare.
As for state primaries, go and visit and get s feel. It's the best way to judge. Much better than Ofsted and league tables. Oh and activities like Rainbows and Brownies will allow her to make lots of local friends from all the different local primaries.

Also I don't know of any state primary whose breakfast club starts earlier than 8am. Some not until 8.15. Many will also offer clubs only in the junior years so check both those points out at schools you are interested in.

I know families from all the schools except Your No2. Most have full wrap round care due to prevent of working parents .. Anything from 7.30am - 6. Tons of DC in Didsbury use them from age 3. The comments about over subscription are out of date as per previous comment. West Didsbury CofE only has 40 of if 60 reception places full at present and Broadoack has spaces. There are still DC entering and leaving the others often due to nature of the area. BRd and Cav often have spaces coming up.
Op - don't get too fixated with stats as intake and area has big influence too. Look at progression and value added. Overall all the schools you mention are really good.
Chorlton CofE has tiny catchment/distance area as its one form entry and no faith criteria so all the DC live on its doorstep; you would be the exception...pm me if you want specific questions answering

Mini - Didsbury play station opens at 7.30 -6.30 and services all schools in the village

Ah yes, overarching one run by day nurseries do tend to offer longer hours. I didn't realise Didsbury had one if those. I was referring to school based wrap around care all run in the individual schools. As I said, both sets of friends with children in different Didsbury schools both extremely happy. And it's good to know they've done so much to alleviate pressure. We have another friend who used to live in Didsbury whose DS is now y4 in a Cheadle prep because they weren't offered any Didsbury school place for him. At least Manchester council have addressed that. Either way, the op doesn't need to worry as her dd falls under PLAC and she can effectively name the school she wants.
I agree with a pp that the op would be better off moving to Didsbury and using one of the excellent state schools available as well as benefitting from the local amenities then looking at MHSG at 11 or even 7.

If you lived in Didsbury and you wanted a Catholic school then there's also St Winifred's on Didsbury Rd. it's technically just over the LA border into Stockport but as a RC school it's catchment extends to Didsbury. It's also a very good school in s lovely area.

It's just up the rd behind the cinema

A friend told me St Winifred's is not full either. St Caths gives priority to baptised LAC children too and is highly sought after and delivers good results. Some are tutored and go onto RC Trafford Grammars. Children all do their sacraments etc and your DD would be expected to. Other catholic schools have less RC intakes and admit other RC - StCaths doesn't need to due to demand.
OP - BRd isn't moving, it's opening a second site with 2 forms at the opposite end of the village.
Op I'd also note that as all the schools you name admit children from an area of 0.3 - 1 mile ish, you would find that your DD would be far from her friends in relation to everyone else. Areas of 0.5m are average ie 10-15 min walk radius from the school....the LA web site lists the distance for each.
Didsbury and Chorlton areas have every after school activity known to child in the two villages so all the DC tend to do sports/swimming/brownies/ballet/drama very locally too. There is generally no need to travel far to do any thing you want.
Your DD would possibly want to do those things with her school friends, so factor that in - lots of after school play dates and car sharing happens to as the move up school.
If you use one of these state schools, please do bear in mind that people may well ask how you got a place if you are miles away. Fraud to get places into the favoured schools was prevalent a few years back so people remain suspicious. It's none of people's business but parents would notice and comment.
A friend of mine ended up having to justify frequently how her DS got in to one primary (SEN not obvious) and another was aware that the question was often raised about her LAC DC as they lived beyond the cut off for the year they entered. Others may assume you applied on time then moved miles away - it's not unknown but other parents don't like it. Due to the history of shortages, securing a desired primary place is still an obsession of many parents with 2-5 year olds in the area. Most will know exactly their distance from each school.
It may not bother you, but I thought I'd mention it. You may end up telling people your child is LAC - which again may bother you or not.

Rapid - which school are you referring too? I could believe that tutoring happens a lot at Chorlton CofE dud to proximity to Trafford for Grammar schools? It has tiny affluent catchment... It definately happens at StCath with those applying for Loreto / St Ambrose grammars. However I'm not sure it's a high percentage in all Didsbury & Chorlton schools?
Most DC do move onto Barlow/Parrswood/Chorlton highs etc so no need to tutor as they are non selective comprehensive schools - unless a specific family thinks their child needs help...or want to move into MGS / Withy girls etc
Lol about a parent following someone home... Every single person I know could tell you their own distance from school and probably that of everyone in their class etc
It may seem paranoia but everyone who gets in, also knows someone / a friend who didn't get which ever was their first choice school (even if they later love their 2nd choice) so will pick up on any DC entering reception from a non normal area of distance. Everyone also knows who bagged a place then moved to a cheaper area... Or who tried to use grandmas address....That's the nature of the beast sadly.

St Winifred's is on Didsbury road, it's not behind the cinema. It's a lovely school, my son went there and was very happy. Good to know the school place situation has improved as well.

Op said they were 4 miles from Moor Allerton (Didsbury) and probably towards the city centre reading the posts, hence the interest in MHSG in Fallowfield?
There must be more people who have direct experience of these schools? I know people at MA and know of others but again most are within a mile of the school and some only went as they didn't like the school they were initially allocated and want a super selective secondary.

Wow! Where I live there is just a choice of equally poor comp high schools unless you can afford private but at least I did not have all the stress of choosing . DS just attended the local primary ( which luckily was rated outstanding!) Then he chose the school most of his friends went to.

Sand - some of the schools mentioned are private (MA / MHSG) There isn't that much choice for everyone unless you are a lac DC in reality, due to dense population, faith schools, and then distance cut offs, but lots of good primaries, so not a case of good v awful.
There are high schools in SManc rated good and two new to open (2018 ish) and certainly by the time OPs child gets to that age...

Well it's not right behind the cinema but it's on that same road that goes up the side.

Ah mini mover I see what you mean. We've now a little cinema in Heaton Moor I thought you meant that one

Thank you very much again for all your inputs, it certainly is giving me a lot to think about. As adopters, it has already been a very hard journey getting to the point of having our daughter, and we are just trying to do our best by her, but it is hard to know what will prove to be best for her in the future. One of our concerns was that she may be picked on for being adopted as she grows up, and so what you have explained about her possibly feeling excluded in some Didsbury/Chorlton schools because she does not live very close, and parents keeping track of where other children live and going to the extent of following them home, would really worry me.

I understand that people may be upset because others they know living close by did not get a place and they (as I) would feel like we “stole” their place. Even if they knew she was adopted, I think people would still be resentful based on what has been said. And although it won’t be a secret that she is adopted, I would not want this to become the topic of conversation amongst parents.

Thank you Inkymess for all your insights, you have been very helpful :)

Thank you MiniMover for the insight into RC schools vs CofE from a religious point of view, also yes of course Didsbury is part of Manchester City Local Authority, I got confused when replying :)

I did actually look at moving to the Didsbury/Chorlton areas, but my husband is really not keen on moving from our current home near Manchester town which we bought and love, and where we are happy. It would not be practical for him either to get to work, and the houses are much more expensive in the South of Manchester than where we live, so we’d have to downsize which is not really an option.

Thank you RapidlyOscillating, that’s a good point, that the good KS2 grades are a result of not only the school, but also the area intake of children and tutoring for entrance exams at 11 which would also benefit KS2 results. As advised by others I am trying to see the whole picture, including value added, not just KS2 results.

I think we’ll just have to have another good think about what we really want for her, as TheMightyMing said there’s a lot to be said for local friends as long as the school is good enough. Although I am not convinced anymore about our closest local school especially after they refused to let us visit the nursery/school, saying we had to apply and go on a waiting list first), I may look at other ones close-ish to us even if they are not the most outstanding ones. It may also be that MHSG from 4 years old is the best option as my impression is that it has children from various areas of Manchester and further afield so she would actually live quite close in comparison to many other children. The “benefit” of being adopted and able to choose the state school of choice is in practice not a real benefit, if the close-knit local community will not accept us (and I appreciate the reasons why as I said above :)). Moor Allerton primary school had the benefit over MHSG Prep to be mixed, and the new headmaster seems really nice, but it is again in Didsbury, and it sounds like most children are local and it has not got the best reputation amongst parents. I had a look at St Catherine’s RC in Didsbury, it looks nice, but am a bit worried about the first article I found as I was searching for the school, saying a child was bullied and kicked by other children, and when telling a teacher was told to “stop being the victim”. Also if we do choose a RC school maybe it would be best if this was closer if we’ll be going to Church every Sunday with our daughter and prepare for her holy first communion and other sacraments.

My last questions hopefully…:
-Out of curiosity, why is Oswald Road not mentioned very much and does not seem as coveted as the other schools when it seems (on paper) to be as good as Beaver Road and is also in a nice building mixing old and new structures?

• Can people apply for a reception place at a state school via the local authority admission system (list up to 3 schools and then offered 1 place by LA) AND also apply directly to schools which have their own admission rules (for instance St Catherines, William Hulme, Moor Allerton, Didsbury CofE, MHSG Prep, etc). I am aware that some have a registration fee. This is just a curiosity to know what is normal/allowed. And then once parents know which school their child was offered a places for, I imagine there is a deadline to let them know if they accept the place or not?

Thank you for all your replies again!

Just to add to your very thoughtful post - my experience (not Didsbury but still very competitive for school places) that it's the parents (rather than the children) who may be more than interested in places. FWIW children couldn't care less and will play / socialise / make friendships as normal. Parents can influence that (play dates etc) but I wouldn't worry about your DD having a hard time at whichever school you choose.

In answer to your 2nd question you apply through your LEA for a state school place through one form. If any of the state schools are Christian schools (eg c of e) you normally have to fill in an additional form for that school too - but it is still part of the state school application process if that makes sense.

At the same time you can apply for any private schools you're interested in but you approach those schools directly.

That's for a place in reception by the way.

You need to check class sizes in the prep schools. If they are very small your dd will have less choice of friends and less alternatives if there are issues in a friendship group than if she went to a state school.

I didn't want to put you off, but I felt it was useful to be aware that parents would notice a child who lived much further away than normal in reception year. It does spark conversations. No one would exclude you, but you may not want people to notice at all. The DC don't care and would be oblivious. They would only notice later up the school when they can't walk to see their friends etc. it's not malicious but just something to be aware of.
The schools vary in sports provision but SManc has literally every every activity known to child several times over. Even with Didsbury there are Several rainbow groups, several brownie packs, 3 large scout /cub/beaver groups, several drama and dance groups, two martial arts centres, three big footy clubs, two rugby clubs, three tennis clubs, family gyms, and tons more - so DC from all the local schools mix and they don't necessarily do any extra curricular with school friends - it's a very dense area and often parents choose different nights/groups etc
A local school is always a good option socially.

Op- it sounds like the local school misunderstood why you wanted to look round.
If you wanted to apply for a place for an older child and they were full, it's likely that they would say you need to apply to go on a waiting list.
They may not have realised you mean a reception place etc. I'd pop in and have a proper chat with the office staff and explain what you want.
All applications are done via the local authority to a set time table except school nursery which will be direct with school. There is no fee for state schools.
Go onto the Manchester LA web site and read up on the process.
I don't know where you are but there are some outstanding schools around Hulme/WRange & Moss Side too - I know teachers in the area.
The people I know at Oswald Rd are happy - historically it was less desirable than Brookburn/StJ/Chorlton Pk but no idea why - area?

Oswald Road is a lovely school - happy feel, good pastoral support, very good HT, modernised buildings, attainment focused.