Turning all schools into academies

[KathrynL]

I've only just seen online that in today's budget the Tories are due to announce plans to turn all schools into academies. I'm not big on politics and I don't know too much about academy schools and the difference between them and community schools so could anyone fill me in on what it will mean and do I need to worry.

Bolognese Fri 18-Mar-16 18:57:07 MumTryingHerBest They will move from a failing academy to a successful academy.

You have based this claim on what exactly? Is there really sufficient evidence to suggest that all failing academies will become successful academies?

good schools will be selected and failing ones will die!

I suspect failing schools will be crammed with the children who have parents who can't afford to move, go private or HE. Pretty much the same as is happening now really. How many failing schools have closed in the last 2 years? In contract to that how many new schools have opened in the areas where the failing schools have closed?

If failing schools die, where exactly will those children be placed for their state education?

Don't pretend that a lot of parents cant choose a different school, that's pretty much what half of all Mumsnet education is about.

Oh right, so Mumsnet is an accurate representation of all parents with school age children in this country?

I can honestly say, I don't know a single person who is planning on sending their DCs to Eton etc.

BombadierFritz& It isn't, so no down side.
MumTryingHerBest Read my previous post that failing schools will have their sponsor kicked out, unlike failing council schools where you are stuck with them indefinitely.

How does that make any sense in your head? So now market forces are at work and we can effortlessly swan from bad to good schools and the bad schools go out of business due to lack of students? Have you ever actually seen this happen or moved your child and if so, how far and how many times? And in future it will be the same with academies, so something that apparently works now will work the same in future (except of course back on planet earth, you have to be grateful your child gets any school place at all)
And the kids the academies refuse to take?

Bolognese Fri 18-Mar-16 20:30:56 failing schools will have their sponsor kicked out

And again I ask how "hopefully parents can vote with their feet".

Closing failing schools or replacing sponsors will not allow parents to vote with their feet any more than they can now.

Perhaps you can tell me how many new outstanding schools have been opened in the last 5 years to serve the areas where failing schools have closed?

That is similar thinking to that of the 1987 Education Act when parents were given the chance to express a preference for a school. I remember Mrs. Thatcher saying that popular schools would be able to expand and unpopular ones would have to improve or close down. No-one in government seemed to realise that it is not that easy to accommodate all the pupils who want a very popular school.

Do you know what currently happens to failing academies if after a change of sponsor they still don't improve ....

Big fat nothing?

No ..they are given back to the LEA to support!

Round here, absolutely nothing happens to a failing academy. Not just carries on being crap. Not even a hint of change of sponsorship.

MRZ please give examples of the failing academies that have been given back to local authorities.

LA's have to give the title deeds to the DfE when a school becomes an academy. We are told that the academy gets a 125 year lease. Is there a clause breaking that lease if the academy has to change sponsorship or reverts to LA? Does the title deed go back to the LA?

Where are the title deeds? Michael Rosen had been chasing this with the DfE who denied holding title deeds, using a FOI request.

please give examples of the failing academies that have been given back to local authorities

Whilst this can happen the normal approach with a failing academy would be to transfer it to a different academy trust or close it completely. I am not aware of any that have actually returned to LA control although I am aware of a few where this has been suggested.

Is there a clause breaking that lease if the academy has to change sponsorship or reverts to LA?

Yes there is. There are also clauses in the academy funding agreement allowing the DfE to terminate the agreement without the normal notice period if the school is failing or in some other situations.

Michael Rosen had been chasing this with the DfE who denied holding title deeds, using a FOI request

Once land is registered at the Land Registry the title deeds are much less significant. Holding them doesn't prove anything.

There are a number of ways land ownership has been dealt with in the past. In some cases the academy has a lease on the land and pays a peppercorn rent. In some cases it owns the land but it is a very restricted form of ownership. It would be more accurate to say that the land is on loan to the academy.

Prh47 the school in question (which I'm afraid I can't name here) was transferred to another academy truse and continued to fail which is why after a long process it was returned to LEA control

mrz The problem will be when the LEA no longer has the support services to pull the academy out of the mire.

Prh47 - When I was a teacher governor a few years back, we considered becoming an academy, but one of the main arguments against was the huge legal cost. Where is the money for legal representation for every converting school going to come from? The academy trust?? School funds?? Government??

Another thing - we also considered becoming an academy cluster of primary schools, under the auspices of a local grammar school. Is that still possible, or will all converting schools be run by a Trust?

Normally you would buy in legal services. As a LA school, we purchase a legal package from our LA. Everyone puts in some money but obviously hardly anyone uses legal services. We have it as an insurance. The same would apply if you were an academy school and you would buy services from a provider of legal services. The larger academy trusts also have educational and admin advisers as well as HR and financial services. Often these employees are just former LA people and former head teachers.

As we are a community school, we already buy advice from our Learning Trust, not our LA. It is a business model. It is staffed by former LA staff.

The Government's position is purely political. Our LA has no influence over how the school is run. They fail to provide their single governor and all our advice is from the Learning Trust. Converting to an academy will be lots of work and give the governors more to do. Decisions as to whether we join an existing sponsor will need to be made an obviously ones like the C of E are not appropriate for community schools. It will be interesting to see if senior schools will be sponsors. We would not want to ally ourselves to our local secondary modern - it is RI - again! Clearly the government will give the sponsors the money they would have given the LAs. It will become a centrally controlled education system but dressed up an "choice".

The petition against forced academics action has exceeded 86000 signatures

bojo I didn't mean the legal services for the running of the school; I meant the legal services required for conversion. Things like land (and buildings?) transfer, contracts for services and staff, etc.

After bit of surfing, I found an existing step-by-step guide that says:'
'School submits grant claim to DfE and receives £25,000 grant to cover costs associated with the conversion process'.
In this advisory document, schools are advised to 'use excellent, proven solicitors', which is expensive.
I wonder where this funding will come from for the new proposed conversions.

Also, during this little bit of surfing, it was noticeable how many solicitors popped up who are 'experts in academy conversion'.

Spoke to the deputy head on the day after it happened. She said they were not suprised but sad all the same. No idea what it will mean for the school in practice but the uncertainty is worse in a way. The school is listed as RI but it's previously good and does well with a challenging demographic.

The nearest local academy chain is one which owns one secondary which is listed as inadequate and has been so for years and one primary which is listed as good. So definitely some misgivings over that possibility. We are currently looking at moving to avoid being in catchment for the secondary so will be unlikely to be affected as much as others. I feel if the academy approach cannot improve the secondary they are unlikely to be very successful with the primaries around here.

Will sign the petition.

Where is the money for legal representation for every converting school going to come from

The government provides a grant of £25k towards the costs of conversion. Opinions (and experience) vary as to whether this is sufficient.

we also considered becoming an academy cluster of primary schools, under the auspices of a local grammar school. Is that still possible, or will all converting schools be run by a Trust

Even in that scenario you would have had to set up a multi-academy trust. And yes, you can still do that.

Academy conversion costs councils millionsBBC investigation reveals huge cost of academisation for local authorities as schools leave their control
Over half of the country’s secondary schools have now converted to academy status, with more to come. However, as they leave local authority (LA) control, millions in debt has been inherited by councils, the BBC has revealed. The Freedom of Information request revealed that £30m of debt has been cleared using LA government education grant, despite schools becoming free of LA control. The Department for Education (DfE) has stated that as debt built up while schools were under council control, they are obliged to pay it. The highest debt was found in the north-west with over £7 million, followed by London with £5 million. Where does the debt come from? When local authority schools choose to convert, councils pick up the tab – including leftover deficit and legal costs. In 2013, Birmingham council feared it would run out of budget completely due to conversion costs. The responsibility can also affect schools still under LA control, whose budget is reduced. Christine Blower, from the National Union of Teachers, told the BBC: "This is another example of the financial pressures that the academies policy has brought to bear on local authorities' education budgets. "As a direct consequence of the academies programme, local authorities have less money to fund and support other schools."

The problem, that changing to an academy cannot really alter,, is where can you get better SLT and teachers? This is often the reason a school is RI or worse and in a rural area or smaller town, there are just not enough teachers or SLT of the right calibre. This is why not all academies will improve. Ofsted have spelt this out and said it is why many northern schools struggle. Being an academy will not help other than unqualified teachers can be employed! (If that is a help?!). Where a member of my family goes to school, the Executive Head is paid in excess of £150,000. The A*-C grades at the school last summer were 41% - so is that value for money?

The academy programme and especially the free schools, take money from the LAs. The spend per pupil in free schools is far in excess of those in LA schools. This is a political decision so the LAs have no "control" over schools. In many schools, it is the government which is really in control. The curriculum, laws, Ofsted and many more aspects of education are government controlled. Virtually no requirements come from the LA. However, only 18% of primary schools are academies. They have been less enthusiastic and I have a suspicion that many primary academies are C of E or religious affiliation. The Co-op is gaining strength and that is where I would look if I was forced to! At least it has a history of sharing profits!

The spend per pupil in free schools is far in excess of those in LA schools

That isn't true. Academies are funded on the same basis as LA schools. The only difference is that their funding is not top sliced by the LA but the academy has to find providers for services that LA schools get from the LA.

curriculum, laws, Ofsted and many more aspects of education are government controlled

Of course the laws and Ofsted are government controlled. That is true for all schools. The curriculum for academies is not government controlled.

At least it has a history of sharing profits

It won't be sharing profits from academies. They must be run by charities which means that any surplus must be retained within the charity and used for the purposes of the charity.

Sorry - just harping back to the conversion £25000 per school armed with numbers (1306 secondaries and14326 primaries). That's nearly £391m!

Which budget will that be coming from? Still the DfES? That amount would pay about 10,000 teachers' annual salaries; pay for over 50,000 childrens' school places; buy over £1bn pencils!

All for what?

Which budget will that be coming from? Still the DfES?

It is the DfE but yes, they will be providing the grants. You are probably a bit low on the costs. The government seems to think it will come in at around £650M.

All for what?

The government and other supporters of academies believe the outcome will be a better education system producing better outcomes for children.

Free school funding IS more generous per pupil than LA or Academy schools. Without LA's not being involved, all decisions are centralised and so is accountability. I am aware the curriculum can be varied in Academies but they sit the same exams so not much variation in practice.

My comment about the Co-op was flippant!!! I know Academies do not make profits but the co-op do run lots of schools and their ethos may well be more appealing than some Academy Trusts. That was all I meant. Perhaps posters did not know the Co-op run schools!

"Free schools and funding
Are free schools receiving more money per pupil than local authority maintained schools?

This seems to me to be a live issue, after I reported (bit.ly/1MWKak2) last month data showing that the former seemed to have been given 60 per cent more cash, on average, per pupil than the latter, based on Department for Education statistics for the last-reported financial year, 2013-14."