State school visits to church

[mummysealion]

Hi all. My DS goes to our local state school. He's in reception, so we're still getting used to the school way of life. My husband and I are atheists and intend bringing our children up with open minds until they can decide for themselves.
At Christmas time, my son was a king in the class nativity play. That's fine, we discussed different people's beliefs. The teacher (who is a practicing Christian) told me they told the kids that's just what some people believe, but that's not the impression I got from talking to my son about it, or watching the play. I opted out of the school's trip to a church service at Christmas time (to a stony reception from the school and threats of unauthorised absence). Now I see that the year above has been taken to a service at the church again and "learned a lot from their talk with Father Whatshisname".
The teacher told me that they have to promote British values and that the church is part of this.
I feel kind of blindsided by the whole thing! Is it right that they can keep taking them out of school to attend church services?! They're not taking them to any other religious venues (synagogue, mosque etc). To my view, it's attempting to recruit them to Christianity, not teaching them British values or giving them an education about religions.
Am I overreacting? Are state schools allowed to repeatedly take children to church? Is that really what is meant by British values?! As a British law abiding atheist I find that rather patronising. I feel a little worried about what they might be telling my child about something that I disagree with, and that has no bearing on his education. It's NOT a faith school.
I'd really appreciate some input from people's experience of other schools.

Thanks all.

There is an established church in the UK - the c of e. Most UK (and European and North American) institutions/values are based on Christian principles. You need to understand those to function as a member of society in the UK. Understanding much of English literature also requires an understanding of Christian traditions.
It is also important to have a grasp of religious traditions - but they are not as important to a UK citizen as the Christian tradition - and those who try to establish equivalence are mistaken.
Your DC are no more likely to start believing in Christianity by visiting a Christian church than they are to convert to Islam or Judaism by visiting a mosque or a synagogue.

I haven't read the thread. But I am prepared to guess what's been said.

1. he's not going to be brainwashed by going to Church
2. it's a Christian country
3. why don't you want him to learn about religion?
4. something about Christianity teaching about moral behavior
5. someone will question your "open mindedness"
6. you should have known what you were signing up for when you chose the school- too late to complain now.
7. a little bit of Christianity never hurt anyone- don't you trust your child to think for himself?

In other words, we Christians like our privilege. Deal with it.

bertrand

I said 6) but I'm an atheist, not a Christian.
I don't "benefit" from the Christian privilege you refer to but still believe that the OP should have known that she signed her DC up to a non-secular education when she enrolled him in an English state school.

I think British values are inseparable from Britain's Christian heritage.

Your kids get plenty of critical feedback on religion from you, they will make their own minds up when they are older. Relax a little

It is only 1/2 way through the first year, it will change. DD attends a non-church school but they take the "daily act of worship" quite seriosly

DD's school does RE learning in relation to big celebrations of various faiths. So Christmas/Easter is obviously Christian, Ramadan is used to learn about Islam. Diwali means Hindu. Judaism is also covered.

She is in Y4 and so far has visited churches but nothing else as all other venues would be a full school trip.

She has a Moslem teacher in school who often does the relevant assemblies. The Infant school has a Hindu teacher who also comes and gives talks.

Saying that, DD is a full fledged believer in God despite having two atheist parents. We have friends who are CoE/RC so DD sees that people are different in their believes.

She recently announced "I believe in God and Jesus and the Easter Bunny and Father Christmas". So I think at the moment it all is about a fairy tale believing because adults tell her about it.

noramum DD1's school didn't do ramadan, diwali or Chinese new year. In contrast, she did them all in nursery.

The government guidance on teaching British values explicitly says;

"Schools should promote the fundamental British values of democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty, and mutual respect and tolerance of those with different faiths and beliefs "

It actually doesn't mention Christianity at all. Over time, a school would be expected to introduce pupils to a range of faiths.

If the OPs child is reception, it may well be that there are visits to other places of worship higher up the school - many schools will visit Hindu temples, gurdwaras, etc through the years. The school will certainly be able to tell them the plan. If there are no plans to do so, then I would definitely question it, and ask how they plan to fulfil their requirements set out by the DofE.

I'd relax. Let it flow over you and your dc.

Me and DH are both athesists. My dd is 11. In her primary school life she has been to church numerous times. She has also been to church with Brownies and now Scouts many times. We even went as a family once to Christingle at Christmas with the Brownies and really enjoyed it! We always had the 'we believe this, other people believe this' conversations and stance. She says she's athesist at the moment, with a great respect for others faith which I'm really proud of. Ds 8 is feeling similar, although he went through a phase of being obsessed with baby Jesus and the Nativity Story. We just let him.

We are the biggest influence on them I think. We take them to science museums, planetariums, watch numerous films together etc. I would indeed pick your battles.

I'm in a similar situation OP, ds started reception in January and I wasn't expecting the onslaught (as it seemed to me!) of Christianity. DS likes nothing better than to sing hymns lustily around the house. My mum (not an atheist) thinks it's hilarious. Coincidentally, DH (proper Christian upbringing turned atheist) isn't bothered by it at all. I'm ignoring it basically although I find it hard.

Ds is in a very multicultural school so they've had to work on how different people believe different things, and after a few incidents of kids telling their very conservative religious parents that god doesn't exist because MiniCitrus and his mate know everything and that's what they say, they've all settled down pretty well (actually establishing who brings Christmas presents when was pretty controversial too!)

They've had a trip to the church over the road to look at stained glass and architecture, and after assurances that it wasn't for a service though there would be a vicar there to talk to, I think the whole class went. Over the next couple years they get all the visits to other places of worship but those are harder to arrange - there's only two mosques and one synagogue and one temple and gurdwara within walking distance in the town, so harder to arrange trips to them, whereas pretty much every school has a church nearby.

I'd let him join in with his friends and just remind him that you think it's a made-up story even though other adults may disagree.

Just tell your DS yourself about faith. Some people believe that Jesus is the saviour, some people believe that Mohammed is the sacred prophet etc. I gave up relying on a balanced RE at my daughter's school years ago. I now tell her to read, discover, and evaluate. She doesn't believe in God but magic and the occult is her bag. It matters not to me, as long as she can give an argument to her standpoint.

humanism.org.uk/education/parents/frequently-asked-questions/

Some great advise from the humanist society

OP - you are not over-reacting. Here are the NSS guidance on your rights to withdraw your child from all this.

"Parents have the statutory right under Section 71 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 to withdraw their children from RE lessons and acts of collective worship at all maintained schools, including faith schools.

Sixth-form pupils at mainstream schools and maintained special schools are able withdraw themselves from collective worship, without the need for a parent's permission. Section 55 of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 amended section 71 of the School Standards and Framework Act 1998 to ensure the right of sixth-form pupils to be excused from attendance at religious worship if they so request. "

Don't let them put you off doing this! We moved our kids away from the local village faith school in large measure because of this crap, but made sure we have a lot of multi-faith material at home. OP - you are not over-reacting. Good luck sorting it out.

We are a community state school. It's very mixed. They do nativity in reception but that's the only time. They do church carol service pre Xmas. They then also celebrate Eid, Hannakuh, Diwali, Chinese New Year and every other major faith event.
The head is pro all the children understanding elements of all faiths and non.
This is exactly why I love the school.
I would not expect Christianity to dominate