Would you defer a summerborn simply because you could?

[Goatcoat]

This was the advice given to me by a child learning practitioner (not a teacher but a specialist who works in schools). They said to "always defer if you can, even if you think your summerborn could cope fine... Better to be one of the eldest than one of the youngest".

My DC2 is a summerborn (not school age just yet though) and the above comments are playing on my mind.

We can afford the extra year of childcare, and having seen my nephew struggle as a summerborn, I must admit it's something I'm considering. DC2 is a bright little thing if I do say so myself! so I am imagining that we would be doing it purely because we could rather than because we'd need to. Education is very important to me and whilst I don't necessarily want DC to be top of the class, I want to give them the best possible start in life. It feels like deferring would do that, whereas not deferring would possibly make me doubt/worry/question whether I'd done the wrong thing.

Lifestyle wise not deferring makes things easier having less of a school year gap between the DC. And I imagine they will be closer if there is a smaller gap... But... But.... But... DC might be "fine" if we don't defer, but "amazing" if we did.

Can deferring be a bad thing??

"ore in life than sitting on the top table just because of the time of year when she was born."

That affect wears off quickly. Its not unusal to have year 2 september born girls in tears and confidence affected because they have been moved down a table. So little August borns often do catch up and occassionally over take. Maybe there should be no ablity tables in infants so it is not so obvious to the september born girl that she is no longer top of the class. It would help the August borns in reception to not be labelled as stupid by being put on the bottom table. Maybe ablity tables in infants creates a poor attitude to learning.

I would hate to a have situation like scotland where parents can defer on a whim. It just shifts the problem. It makes differentiation harder for the teacher if there is a gifted and talented summer born child who has been deferred.

The scottish system might work better if very able summer borns who have been deferred unnecessarily could be put up a year at a later date.

I posted a link to an article in the guardian in the last thread on this subject which showed at GCSE the difference between a September and August born pupil is 0.04%. Might be statistically significant for a whole population but not individually.

I won't be deferring my summer born DD, 2.5 at the moment. She's tall and bright and can already imagine she'd stick out like a sore thumb in a class with everyone 3-15 months younger than her. Can't see why anyone whose DC appear average or above would consider it tbh, it's not an advantage to go through school in a class who aren't your peers academically (surely the point of school), they would be bored with no competition and always doing extra work on their own. Bit different if it becomes the norm, but can't see that happening straight away. The people who see only advantage are being very shortsighted.

I agree, mrz. The new curriculum focuses on horizontal rather than vertical extension, and work building on previous work, so theoretically you couldn't skip a year without missing out on great chunks of core learning.

Its not unusal to have year 2 september born girls in tears and confidence affected because they have been moved down a table. So little August borns often do catch up and occassionally over take.

Mine did - it wasn't the children that were taken back it was very much their parents.

Though with some teachers the ability sets didn't seem very fluid at all - and the children always seemed to know what the sets were.

In fact had in maths two teachers so two years worrying oblivious to one of our child's maths ability - coming on with additional help at home - the targets things she could easily do but they kept her in bottom set. Not one child moved sets in maths for two years and top two sets had no girls at all according to my child. New year and teacher and suddenly top group and being told our child is advanced and exceptionally good at maths.

I don't think that will be an issue as in most classrooms there will be a huge range of "starting points" and teachers are very experienced when it comes to "filling gaps"
But imagine you defer a year and the class your child would have been in has 30 pupils ... Midway through reception you decide your child is more than capable of working with their peers but the school can't just take an additional pupil because there simply isn't space.

Mrz but even if they were more than capable been deferred is still not a bad thing.
I want my children to be children as long as they can. So play based learning for as long as possible. Also they don't have to go to sixth form at just 16 or uni at just 18. The extra year is just as crucial at that point.

I agree there has to be a cut off point but I feel very strongly that children here start formal education far too early and that's why I'll defer my Scottish Feb born. She is showing herself to be very able and I probably wouldn't defer if school starting age itself was older iyswim.

"Mrz but even if they were more than capable been deferred is still not a bad thing. "

You are only thinking of your own child, not the rest of the class. What is an advantage for your child is a disadvantage for other children. If all the summer born children defer then the March/April children will be bottom of the pile instead.

We need more flexibility for summer born children, but that should not be th right to defer just so that little snowflake can be the oldest in the class. Deferring should be a professional decision, not an over protective mummy decision.

I was answering Irvines question andnow not expressing a view

The Scottish system is much better imo. No child, regardless of deferral, starts school until 4 and a half and they will be 11 and a half starting High School.

I am in Scotland. I think the effect of deferring is less significant here because the year group date is February for an August start. Due to the costs of pre-school childcare very few defer on a whim. Our 2nd year of nursery is very similar to YR but only 1/2 a day. Children are usually deferred in consultation with nursery staff. I would prefer more children to be deferred as I know of several examples of children very young for their year who were not ready and took up disproportionate amounts of classroom time due to behaviour management issues.

Thank you MRz, and please don't attack mrz for questions I asked!

And, I think if you are more than capable and deferred, it is a bad thing, in my opinion. If you are far more mature and ready to learn new thing, but you are not allowed to move on, only because your parents decided to hold you back when you are 3/4, not thinking about consequence about what happens in about a year or two.

Being deferred in IMO doesn't mean you are preventing them from learning. It means they are learning in a more appropriate play based environment with individual choice built into their day. P1 here definitely tries hard to provide this and does a pretty good job of it but is in no way able to do this to the extent a nursery can. I don't have experience of what an English nursery provides though so can only comment on what I see here in Scotland.

My ds had very unpleasant reception year, and teacher said it was due to unstructured system. She said he will enjoy YR1, because it's more structured and like a proper school. And she was right. So, some children actually prefers not to be treated like little children, more like proper pupil.
If I had a choice I would have let him start school year early.

I think you're right irvine - one size never fits all. :)

I don't see the point in rushing school education as I think there is also an issue at the other end if teenagers are not old enough for University. I went at 17 and would have benefited from waiting a year. Again Scotland has more flexibility in this as it is possible to go after highers in Y12 or advanced highers in Y13. I think there is more flexibility with in-year transfers as well and certainly at primary the curriculum is very fluid and focussed on learning at the best pace for the individual rather than getting each cohort to a target point (this also has its downsides).

The whole secondary experience is completely different. Children go after 7 years at primary and stay in the same place through to Y13.

Thank you faintlyoptimistic. I only have one child, so I'm only talking from my point of view from his experience. But I really think if you are allowed to differ, I truly believe parents have to think really hard before doing it automatically, thinking it will benefit your child.
My ds is in YR3 now, and a lot of summer born children who were understandably behind at a start of reception have caught up, or doing rather well especially with engaged parents, who are interested in children's education.

Going to uni at 17 or 18, there could be a lot you can choose to do. Or you can tell your parents what you want to do. You are mature enough to choose. But age 3/4/5, you can't really choose yourself. It's a very big decision.

Agreed Irvine that is what I was trying to say. In Scotland deferring in not such a big decision because there is much more leeway and flexibility. I have an August DD3 and I am just glad I don't have the decision to make. Her English cousin is starting "school" a whole year before her, but since he will be YR and she will be Y1 perhaps they are actually starting at the same time.

Thank you howabout.

We're in Scotland and still pre-school but we know lots of children starting primary now and I've never heard of any defer "on a whim".
For a start most February borns have been in nursery or preschool so deferring school entry is a bit like being held back a year and the kids have to see all their friends go on to school and not go with them. That's not something you'd put your child through on a whim. I've only seen it done when the child was socially immature and gravitated towards younger friends anyway or struggled with their own peer group.
I've seen lots of February borns (potentially the youngest) go to school in their own year (so 4.5). I live in a privileged area where parents are clued up on the stars and you'd think deferral for advantage would be most common but I'm not really seeing it happen. Nursery/pre-school teachers would strongly advise against it if they felt it was the wrong decision.

If the chance to defer is handled sensibly by everybody then it can allow more individual treatment of each child's needs.

Really tired you can't compare March , Feb babies to July August babies . Feb, March babies will always be at least 4.6 when they start school. An August baby could be 4 plus a day.

Also April is summer born really tired.

"Really tired you can't compare March , Feb babies to July August babies . Feb, March babies will always be at least 4.6 when they start school. An August baby could be 4 plus a day."

There is a big range of development. Some August born babies are developmentally very advanced and thrive in reception. There are children who might have a birthday earlier in the year and still struggle with continence or fine motor control or speech. Some September born children could cope with an early start to school with ease.

April is in spring, rather than summer. Children with April birthdays are only slightly younger than average. The idea of deferring an april born children without exceptional grounds would be silly.

I am not against deferral, if there is strong developmental medical grounds for doing so. I feel that an deferral should be approved by a community paediatrian/ educational pychologist. Mummies often underestimate what their child is capable of.

The idea of deferring an april born children without exceptional grounds would be silly.

But it's just as legal as deferring your 31/8 child. In theory the same advantages are conferred on Annie April as on Alex August.

I have to say that my main objection to the automatic right to defer is that it applies to 1/4-31/8 which is 5/12 of the school year. July and August automatic with May/June discretionary would mirror the Scottish system.