SATS do you give a shit or do you not?!

[MidnightVelvetthe5th]

I do not. I have a Year 6 & a Year 2 so both are doing SATS this year. The Year 6 has had special class meetings about them & is worried about his potential scores, my Year 2 has come home with workbooks in English & Maths that were given to him 'as a present' by the teachers & he says we have to do them over the half term.

The school have put on special evening meetings for both year groups for parents to talk about how to improve their childrens scores' (I was working so had a good excuse for not attending) & I've had pages & pages of stuff come home in bookbags for my DC to do in their spare time.

My 10 year old was getting far too worried about them so basically I've taken the line that the results the children get are not important for the children themselves, they are for the school to show how good the teaching is and the new Head that has something to prove So I expect my DC to do their best certainly but I don't expect to be deluged with the bloody things or to have them encroach on holiday time.

Where does everyone else stand on them, are there parents who frantically work their way through the extra workbooks & I'm being weird by not doing so?

I think its a by product of the focus on the test mrz. The head says as that is what is tested and examined thats what they focus on - I think its probably a majority concern of most schools/headteachers.

We don't live in a middle class area, they are trying to bring the children up to meeting standards or whatever its currently called. It drives me crackers. We don't have the money to choose a different school/area but I think they're pretty much all similar around here, "pressures of the new curriculum" ra ra ra.

And I'd argue it's the product of league tables and everything linked to them

Apparently they're considering assessing all subjects so that should sort out the schools who focus solely on the tests

I have a year 6 DD but as she did very well in the 11+ And we have decided to go Private anyway the SATs are totally irrelevant to us and I have told her teacher this. Also, the 2 closest comprehensives one doesn't stream until year 8 and the other assesses the children internally anyway so none of her classmates are too bothered anyway.
We were asked to make sure that she did her homework Under exam conditions and I said that there was no way we would be doing that. Have also told DD that while she should try her best in the tests we will be doing no prep with her at all and that the says are for the schools benefit not hers.
I also have a year 2 DS but the school keep their days very low key and I don't think he's has any idea he is doing them.

hoppingGreen why did you feel the need to go and tell the teacher that they were 'irrelevant' to you?

I'm a teacher, my DS is in year 6 and no I don't really care about his SATS. He certainly won't be doing any extra work for them. Having said that they are a reflection of the primary school in which he has made excellent progress during the years so I definitley wouldn't go in to see the teacher to tell them how 'irrelevant' they were to my child. They are important to the school and to the teacher and although I couldn't care less about them I certainly wouldn't be so insulting as to go in and and say that.

I don't know one teacher who thinks that all the government imposed tests are a good thing. I do know many teachers who worry themselves sick over SATS results and also the effect that SATS have on the children they teach.

Oh and the 'exam conditions' thing is probably because most of the children won't have taken any sort of 'exam' befor (KS1 SATS are much less formal) and getting used to those sort of quiet conditions beforehand in the comfort of their own home is likely to make them less anxious on the day.

"Apparently they're considering assessing all subjects so that should sort out the schools who focus solely on the tests"

And will that "sort out" the schools expected to show progress for pupils who left two years ago, do you think?

No and it won't sort out the secondary schools like the one my children attended who waste 3 years repeating curriculum content

Francine have you read the KS1 test administration guidance for this year?

mum because SATs for some children, are just another assessment - and no big deal- to show what they have learned and to highlight any gaps in their knowledge.
DD had targets throught Primary school and her end of year reports gave a level achieved alongside a TA of whether she was 'below, in line with, above or exceeding' expectations for that point in her education- State Primary school in a deprived area and no grammar school selection.
I find the 11+ V Yr6 SATs interesting as the 11+ is sat much earlier than the end of Yr6 SATs.
How much 'prep' is done for this assessment?

mrz - Mum visit any junior school and they will moan about the levels passed on from the infants ...just as secondaries moan about primary levels.

I would be very surprised if my DCs junior school moaned about the levels coming up from the infants. My DC1 was assessed as flat level 3 at the end of year 2 but assessed by the junior school as level 4s at the beggining of year 3. If they had an issue with the year 2 SATs results, why would they inflate them further?

I remember my own children spending three (yes three) years of secondary repeating things they'd mastered in primary because their teachers didn't believe SATs results.

I think that says more about that particular secondary school. It seems odd that they didn't trust their own assessments/exams at the beginning of year 7 and throughout years 7 & 8 either. I don't know of any secondary schools that only use the year 6 SATs results to assess ability/knowledge throughout years 7,8 & 9.

How exactly did your DCs secondary school show the children had achieved appropriate levels of progress if they spent 3 years going over primary level Maths & English? Were they placed in special measures by any chance?

Does your child attend a primary school Mum or a separate junior school with many feeder infant schools ...I suspect the former

No I haven't Mrz - I'm not teaching year 2 this year. Has it gone the way of KS2? I know our year 2 teachers last year kept KS1 as low profile as possible and when I had a full time KS1 SATS I did the same (years ago!). Obviously test conditions but in the classroom etc not the formal 'in the hall' route.

ProggyMat I find the 11+ V Yr6 SATs interesting as the 11+ is sat much earlier than the end of Yr6 SATs. How much 'prep' is done for this assessment?

The only prep. my DS has done so far, that I'm aware of, is two practice papers (done back to back on the same day a couple of weeks ago). My DS has not mentioned SATs, the teachers have not mentioned SATs and non of the parents care about the SATs as we are waiting to hear which secondary school our DCs have been allocated (notified at the beginning of March).

two practice papers for the 11+, mum?

Interesting that you're happy to dismiss my children's experience of secondary school as "more about the school" yet your experience if primary isn't?

The experience of treading water in secondary isn't unique to one school nor is your experience of teaching to the test but neither represent every school in England.

"The experience of treading water in secondary isn't unique to one school nor is your experience of teaching to the test but neither represent every school in England."

...and SATs are a useful contribution to neither scenario, of course

mrz both my DCs attend a junior school with one primary school with linked school priority.

Children do join the junior school from other primary schools, 1/3 of the children in DC1s class did not attend the linked infants & nursery school.

The two schools have their own HM, management teams and staff.

If the secondary school hadn't dismissed SAT results then there would have been a very different scenario multi

Do you seriously think that secondary schools should rely on SATs results to determine what their students are capable of and what level* they are working at? Do you really think that if a school is blindly ignorant that its pupils are repeating content for three years, and collects no data of its own during that time, then "not believing SATs results" is its main issue?

*using the word in its standard English sense, not eduspeak

I agree with sats/ nationalised standards in theory. But not in current practice.

ProggyMat two practice papers for the 11+, mum?

No sorry, that was for the SATs.

The amount of preperation undertaken for the 11 plus exam varies from area to as there is no standard format. In some areas you only need to be in the top 25% of scores and then it comes down to distance. In my area you needed to be in the top 3% of scores if you wanted to be able to choose from any of the schools. For the school my DC1 wants, he needs to be in the top 5-6%.

The CEM VR requires a breadth of vocab that goes way above primary level. The exam format was changed at the end of March so any preperation work done for VR prior to that was not much help (other than straight reading of course, which my DC1 does very little of).

The point I'm trying to make, mum, is that if DC's are able to sit and pass the 11+ due to the education they have received at their Primary school- no hot housing or tutoring- why would SATs be a problem?

mrz Interesting that you're happy to dismiss my children's experience of secondary school as "more about the school"

So what else would have caused the school to not bother carrying out their own assessments and progress monitoring and to blindly teach at primary level for three years despite the fact the children had already mastered what was being taught?

It looks like the unions will call for heads to boycott the tests this year.