moving DD!

[peppansalt]

Following on from my previous thread regarding concerns over tiny class sizes I am looking for thoughts on where we go with this.

In short, we moved DD at yr 1 to a private day school (up to yr 11). Pros, DD has a small scholarship, it's a nice non-pushy school and its local.

Cons... She's in a class of only 5, causing lots of problems socially and probably academically. No imminent prospect of new pupils joining. Very limited resources and activities.

Our dilemma is, do we, or even should we, move her again? We are very rural and the local state schools are terrible (hence why we moved her the first time). Do we investigate state schools further afield (which again may not help her socially?), or do we send her to another private school (all more expensive)?

Keep going round and round

You could give her a bit of time to adjust and make friends - if that's the issue. Sorry - I didn't see your other thread.

Dd1 moved schools after Y2 and it took her until Xmas to not feel lonely. And it took almost two terms to feel "at home" in the new school.

Kids that age sometimes need help with making friends - and although play dates are not always fun for the adults - they do work wonders!

A class of 5? I'd be very worried that the school was in imminent danger of closure. I wouldn't think much of it from an academic perspective either.

I'd definitely look to move - before you get a letter telling you that the school is about to close, leaving you in the situation of having to grab at any school place.

Thanks Mom. DD has been at the school for 2 years and the real issue is class sizes. There are only 5 children in her class (3 girls, 2 boys) and the girls are all very similar, assertive bossy characters. When they bicker there is no scope for them to play with other same-aged girls.

I have spoken with both the class teacher and Head but no other girls are likely to be joining anytime soon.

DD does Brownies and gymnastics so she does have a broader circle of friends, but I am concerned about school

Jeee, yes that has been mentioned a lot, however it is a very old school with a great deal of local support. Most classes have about 15 children, it's just year 3 has 5!

I had a family member who was in a very small year group - they did mix year groups though which helped. Nevertheless having seen this was partly why we went for a school with full class sizes for our own dc.

If you move her it might be best to go for a school where she has friends already from brownies and gym so there are some familiar faces.

Schools can change so it might be worth having another look at local state schools.. Really primary age should be about social things and village schools can be good at giving lovely experiences which might be better for children than being pressurised into top sats results

We feel like we've gone from one extreme to the other! Last year years 1 and 2 were mixed so it was a class of 15 - it's only this year the problem has become apparent.

DD is at Brownies with girls from the other local state school and actually we did look at it 2 years ago. Unfortunately, for lots of reasons we didn't feel it was the right fit for DD

Is the school roll approx. 15 per year all the way to Year 11. If so I would be exceptionally concerned particularly that they could afford the specialist teachers for GCSEs.

Do the school publish it's accounts most do now mainly to help parents feel confident as there have been some notable dramatic closures. If they are not publishing accounts this would be a red flag and suggest they are coasting on reserves.
Beyond that 3 girls in a year group is just too small, plus it often leads to one left out.

I guess the issue then is where we move her.

1. Stay private and expect steeper fees + longer journeys (we're not too far from Cambridge so you can imagine the selection process & costs)
2. Try and get her into a good state school - no guarantee of place and again it would be long car journey
3. Move to local primary and hope for the best

How terrible are the local schools really?

Our experience is a tiny village school, with very jaded, cynical teachers coasting before retirement. 30+ pupils per mixed year class.

Doesn't sound great, but sounds possibly better socially.

Are you sure they are all coasting. Some of the best teachers my kids have had have been close to retirement. They had no truck with a lot of the performance-driven stuff - testing etc. But they were wonderfully child-centred, and my kids thrived with them.

Classes of 30 are normal in many state schools and, in my opinion, better than a class of only 5 children! If you are not too far from Cambridge, how long is the journey? People regularly travel further to prep schools and it is considered normal that children live all over the place. Children travelled 30 minutes plus each way to our prep school.

You can ask Cambridge CC (or applicable LA) if they have a list of schools where there are vacancies in your year group. Small class sizes are not the most important aspect of primary education - high quality teaching is. So whatever you decide, make sure you know you are getting first class teaching and a school that gets fantastic progress from the children, especially if you are paying for it. If you cannot really afford a better school, I suggest you look closely at state options before rejecting them. School fees usually go up way above inflation so if you are worried about cost, you might need to review your long term plans. I am not a fan of private schools without 6th forms - usually not very academic because the parents of academic children aspire to more!

5 is too small and I think you would be better moving her sooner rather than later. My DD is in a small private school (17 in her class up from 14 last year) so I can see the benefit but 5 is just not workable.

Secondary there is going to be absolute no no.

Is it worth revisiting the school brownie friends go to? You would be looking at the juniors now not infants and things do change.

Maybe think about what secondary and work back from that?

Go for your local state school.

It's really highly likely to be an awful lot better than you think it will be.

And you can always go private for secondary.

5 is way too tiny, I'm surprised they are financially viable. My kids are in 2 different prep school and classes of 21 (has been as low as 17 and high as 23) and 19, up from 15. Even 15 I felt was too small. The class of 21 is year 5 and co-ed and I can see they are starting to get a bit fed up of each other.

The head of the school with 19 in the class said that they need it to be 18 per class to make it financially viable. Most classes are 20-22 and accounts are good so no worries but those numbers make sense to me.

With 5 children you can't offer team sports and play matches, can't do a proper house captain / prefect kind of thing, can't do group work. Doesn't make sense

5 in a class would really worry me. If you move her to another indy, she may be eligible for a Year 3 scholarship?

Tomatoes, did you just ask the school for a copy of accounts; is the info freely available?

The school is a registered charity, all the accounts are freely available on the charity commission website. If the school is privately owned then it's more difficult to get hold of the figures.

What are the specific things you don't like about the local state school? WhT's the OFSTED like? When you say mixed classes of 30 how many grown ups are there per class?

Thanks Tomatoes... Based on 2014 accounts expenditure outweighs income by about £10. Should that be a concern?

I'm not an expert but it depends what their reserves are like. If it was due to one off expenses like a new building they had to fund then possibly not but otherwise then I guess there are questions to be asked as continuing in that vein will surely be unsustainable unless they are addressing it. At a brief glance one of our schools had an income of £300k more than spending and that was with a huge building project, the other had an income of £1.5m over outgoing.

I would agree with Tomatos that it is normal to make an operating profit for independent schools. New buildings usually are separated from operating profit and are listed as exceptional items funded out of reserves.
The operating profit should be going into reserves to fund future big projects otherwise how are they going to fund any development in the school.
Just breaking even or worse in this day and age would be quite concerning.