Reading disaster (reception)

[dragonknight]

DD started in Reception this year, so I know that we're only half a term in, but at the parent-teacher meeting we were told that DDs inability is concerning.

I thought we were doing okay. She can blend letters and sounds, she seems to understand how sentences work. She will answer questions about the story as we're going along, some better than others.

But it turns out that in class, DD is expected to read the book, remember the story, and re-tell it in her own words. I tried this last night with her current book, an ORT Biff and Kipper story. Instead of a page-by-page chat, I waited till the end and then asked DD to tell me what happened. She said 'Kipper swallowed his tooth'. She was right, but when I asked for more detail DD sat for what seemed like forever and said nothing. She was fine when I opened the book and asked what was going on at various points, but without the pictures and words in front of her, she seems to have no memory of the detail.

How serious is this? I was lying awake last night wondering how DD will ever learn anything at school if she can't recall any detail about things that aren't in front of her. We can keep hammering away at the read, remember, retell approach - will it just get better over time? Can anyone recommend any strategies and approaches to help? I don't want to make her worried about reading by being too demanding, but to be told that DD is falling well short of what is required when she's only been at school for a couple of months is thoroughly depressing. Plus we seem to be in this position because I've not been demanding enough, so I clearly need to up my game as well!

This sounds like very high expectations for a dc who is just getting used to a classroom environment let alone sharing her opinions. (I have 3 DDs in Scotland).

In your shoes I would have been asking the teacher to be more specific and what home support they suggested. I would be very reluctant to be adding stress to the home reading in case it was counter-productive.

Is this serious? Op, you mention your dd's "inability" is concerning her teachers. Are they implying that most of the other children can do what's expected of them perfectly well? That's not believable at all...

I agree expectations sound very high at this school. I wouldn't expect all children to be able to retell a whole story from memory especially so early on in the term.

Open-ended questions such as 'What happened in the book?' are a big ask. I would try more closed who/what/where/why questions to test her re-call, eg: 'Where did Biff and Chip go?' 'Why was Dad cross?' 'What did Kipper swallow?' 'Who fell off the chair?'

Having her retell the story with the pictures in from of her is also a strategy - it's completely normal for early readers to need visual prompts to help them recall and retell stories. Once you've read through the book a few times maybe try asking her if she can remember what happens next before turning the page.

It might also be that if your DD is reading the books herself she is concentrating so much on decoding the words and reading them correctly she can't concentrate on understanding the meaning yet. This is also normal for early readers. Is she better at recalling a story if you read it to her rather than if she's read it herself? Then she can concentrate fully on comprehending the storyline.

Also try reading more exciting books with her. To be honest I think some of the ORT books are so boring it feels like not much is happening to talk about! She might find it much easier to retell and talk about her favourite bedtime stories than her school reading books.

Don't worry too much. Really it sounds like your DD is doing fine considering she's only been in school for 2 months! The comprehension part of reading is a skill as much as being able to recognise or decode individual words and with practise she will get better at it! I definitely wouldn't worry it's going to effect her ability to learn and I'd be shocked if there aren't lots of DC in her class who aren't able to do this yet either.

Were they actually saying they were worried or were they just giving you pointers about how you can help her? Schools are expected to share 'next steps' with parents no matter how well children are doing. If they are worried though, then I'd have serious concerns about the school. ORT books are very boring - I can't imagine many children of Reception age could recount the stories.

I would not be concerned about your DD. The attitude of the school/teacher maybe. I think I would just keep going, practise, enjoy books together. I would be very careful to make stories fun, to make reading fun. Read to her without her having to read so she just gets to follow and enjoy a story. I would also share different kinds of books with her so you get a feel for her favourites. My son basically learnt to read with books from outside of school. The school obviously did lots of the teaching of the sounds and phonetics and then we found the books he liked and home and it just happened. He hated and still hates the school books. He didn't like Chip and Kipper (sensible boy!) books and the ones he gets now are worse. But we found books at the local library that he enjoyed and we just went with them. So the teaching was at school and the practise and reinforcement was at home. It's really important that the children enjoy the story that they are reading. They will remember it when they like the story. Don't worry. It is so early in her education for the school to be worrying you with comments like that. Just keep sharing and focusing on enjoyment.

Libraries sorry, yes it was me that magically changed name part way through! Back again. (see, this lack of memory thing in DD is my fault!). yes, I've seen people on here comment before about children being too keen to please and be perfect and then not dealing with making mistakes. At home I think we overcelebrate - all the way through reading I'm telling DD that she's done well, read nicely, great expression etc, and then where necessary pointing out anything that isn't quite right.
Irvine thank you for the links. DD might like the idea of an online activity. She sees computer time as a treat so might associate it with fun. Glad that your DC is thriving now. If I'm learning one thing here it is that all children are different and that early learning needs to be a positive experience. Like Bikechick says.
Stargirl that is helpful - thank you. I see that the ORT books online have games to play including sequencing picture cards from the books, so perhaps we could use those. But four points from an eight page book sounds more achievable than what I was afraid we needed to do. I'm sure DD can come up with four sentences! She has a good memory for other things. Thinking about it, she can sing sings from memory, and can talk about things that happened in the past, so she's not waking up every morning with a blank page.

Good grief!!! My 4 yo in reception can't even write his own name properly!

I'm just going to send my dd over to dunces corner with your ds It's been six weeks I'm happy dd even makes it through the day

That's great advice keely. I don't think DD is too aware of reading levels etc so if she were to be put 'down' to easier books then the decoding and comprehension might match up more easily and work in partnership. Might suggest that, or use the ORT online to access some more basis books for practice.
howabout indeed! The more I think of it, the more I think we need some clear advice from the teacher about what she hopes that we will do at home. No point in working away at pointless stuff, and as a total bookworm myseld I'd like DD to enjoy reading.
newbear we're okay with closed questions, at least while the book is in her hand. I sometimes cover the words and ask her what has happened in the picture. Haven't thought about 'can you remember what happens next' though - good idea!
caravan yes they genuinely expect her to be able to recount the story from memory. I asked at the P-T meeting directly what was wrong with the approach that we were taking at home, and was told that if DD had to use the book itself to find answers then she had clearly not remembered or understood its content.

Remember that Stargirl (as she pointed out) is also talking about an older cohort of children.

I am a bit worried that you still seem to see this as something it is your job to fix. Your child is not behind or wrong. The school is being really pushy.

(DD2 can't write her name either. It is a tricky one but she's not alone in her class)

I wonder about the expectations of the school too. If it was my child I would be reading stories to them at night (reading to them as much as you can and if they have reading/learning problems this helps them a lot - not saying she had reading probs).
I wouldn't be so bothered about what the teacher says yet it's too early in and all kids learn at a different pace.
I would break reading it into two ways of learning at this stage (1) learning the words and how to read, phonics (sounds) and decoding (the letters) and sounds they make) etc. Focus on just reading words out from the book, not so much the understanding and (2) talking through the accompanying pictures on the page with your child.
You are not making them tell you about the story and what they are reading as much just looking at pictures.
To be honest they are often just "learning" the coding process at this stage. It's a lot to take in. Learning about words and getting comprehension all comes with practice. You can show her a picture and ask your child to talk about it. What do they see? Try and capture her imagination. Some kids just have to learn what books are about, and this takes time. So read lots to her, keep her practicing her words and reading per se andask her to explain what's happening in each picture.
You could also give her a book cover with a picture and title ask her what she thinks the book is about. She could gain way more info and learning from this at this stage :)

Libraries we were told DD was behind in both maths and english in our 1:1 meeting. But we got an inkling from the group meeting. I think some schools just have very high expectations. It causes the parents a lot of anxiety.

Good grief!!! My 4 yo in reception can't even write his own name properly!
You can't believe how much we tried to push DD on the writing. We got her wipe clean books and also the jolly phonics app. She's actually improved a lot since we tried. She can now write both her and her sister's name, starting from writing nothing when she started school in september. She's a spring baby, and I noticed on the birthday board in her class that most of the children are spring and summer born, with a few birthdays in oct to feb. The school is 2 form entry so my guess they have already streamed the class by birth dates.

Thank you libraries. Perspective needed! I think I have conjured up an image in my head of DD sitting in class being interrogated by teaching staff and unable to cope. I have no evidence for that! I'm sure they are lovely and supportive to the children.

I wish though that I had asked 'well what do YOU plan to do about it' at the P-T meeting rather than coming home and worrying about how to fix it myself. I'll ask for a follow up chat - is there really a problem, what exactly is the problem, what do you do in class that has enabled the rest of the cohort to do fulfil your expectations, and how do we deploy the methods at home to cement your approach and make DD feel comfortable with the task. I'm becoming less convinced that there is a real issue here

That is horrible Head dreamer. Our school would never dream of saying that half a term in. I come from a family of teachers who wouldn't either.

It really is criminal what pushy teaching does to some kids. My friends daughter loved books before school and by Christmas point blank refused to open one for six months

and was told that if DD had to use the book itself to find answers then she had clearly not remembered or understood its content.

Well maybe, but she's a 4 year old in reception so it's sort of expected development.

How many times is she reading the book before being expected to answer questions on the whole book or do a straight retelling? It's an unrealistic task to expect a new reader to do this from one reading. Usually if you are getting children this age or older, to retell a whole story you use one they know well and use plenty of visual, verbal or kinaesthetic prompts.

I can't see anything that you've written that would worry me at this stage.

Who is their right mind is listening to readers and asking all the questions at the end of the book? Surely it's natural to do it as you go along.

What everyone else has said about insanely high expectations. DS has only just started to 'get' reading and he is in Yr1. The school is outstanding and he is a bright kid. Its just about readiness. I would focus more on enjoying reading together and how useful reading is (like finding where you want to go). In a term or so you could do some simple treasure hunta around the house with clues like 'bath' or 'bed' written on post its. A sweetie is at the end! Plus if reading together after school is too much, try doing a page in the morning before school. But mainly try not to let anyone make a big thing out of it -most children in the world haven't even started school yet!

I think you are reading too much into the comments. The teacher meant 'she reads well but her comprehension doesn't match and needs to catch up'. Dd's HT said to me when I was talking to him that early readers often dont understand what they are reading, its purely mechanical. The teacher is just managing your expectations in that she probably thinks you think your dd is really advanced.

Which to her is obvious because the rest of them can't read

Headdreamer poor you! Sounds like a conversation rather lacking in empathy!
Rafa good question and I don't know the answer. At home we tend to read the page once and then talk, and that seems okay. But at school I don't know if they do that, or read bigger chunks. I'll ask.
Paper interesting, but again I don't know. Beginning to wonder how mcuh I do know actually! Reading books seem to come from different schemes. I looked at the floppy phonics website and I don't recognise the titles, so you may be right. The Biff & Kipper one about teeth clearly comes from another series, but it is the first B&K book we've had for a few weeks. DD seems to be able to choose her own books from a box.
toby I agree to some extent - the school needs to tell parents what is good and what needs a bit of work. But the language was much more negative in a 'I'm really worried about your daughters inability to demonstrate comprehension of what she has read' kind of way. DH thinks the school might have screwed up at the start. They did some 'entry' assessments on the EYFS and decided at that point to give DD books with words rather than just pictures. DH thinks that DD probably 'read' a sample of text and therefore ticked a box, but that it is only when they have done reading in class with her that they've noticed that she is blending and decoding language and narrative that is beyond her ability to absorb while reading. If the school had told me that DD was able to read X but that having tried getting her to talk about it they wonder if she might be better on the more simple content of level Y, I don't think I would have argued. It was the 'this is a worry' message, and the 'you're not doing it properly at home' thing that got me stressed.
You lovely people are making me feel a whole lot better though (despite the fact that this conversation is exposing my ignorance about so many things..... (wandering off reciting 'don't panic she's only four and today in Friday' under my breath

It seems highly irresponsible of the teacher to make remarks like that and not also give you some concrete ideas of how to address (if it is even a real issue - she seems to have some high expectations of children who are probably slightly in shock from having to sit in a classroom all day and are probably knackered....). Perhaps ask for a follow up meeting to discuss what both you and the school can do (as a unified approach) to help your daughter achieve her full potential.

I honestly thought four-year-olds weren't capable of recalling an entire story in chronological order I'll have to work out where I read that.

This is bizarre. My DC2 is in Reception as well, and we consider that he's doing well when he remembers that words are written left-to-right. It's a huge new skill for them.

FFS, these poor children :(

FWIW, my DS didn't even truly learn to read until Y1 Christmastime. He was on Stage 1 ORT for what seemed like ages. I panicked -a lot!, he's my PFB afterall- but luckily his teachers were very cool and said he'd "get it" when he was truly good and ready to read.

They were right, and by the end of Y2, he was reading advanced chapter books on his own. I shudder to think how it would have gone down had he been in a school with that amount of pressure

I agree Vagndidit.
My DS was advanced reader in reception, but now in YR3, a lot of children caught up. Learning is not a race.

Also agree with vagndidit. My dc didn't start to get reading until the beginning of year 2. He loves reading now. There does seem to be a lot of pressure put on young children in schools now, unfortunately. I decided not to put any additional pressure on at home, and I think it was the right decision.

Hi,

My DD started in reception in Sept and has just brought home her first book with actual words in. At the parent's meeting just before half term I was told she is very able!

So I think your school may have some very high expectations.........

I am shocked. Seems utterly ridiculous from the school. My child (admittedly summer born) can only recognise half his letters and certainly can't write at all. Has a go at some letters if he's in the mood.

My husband and I are Oxbridge graduates so reasonably confident there'll be some brain cells in there somewhere. I'd be furious with DS' school if they were making suggestions like that. It's such early days / let them move at their own pace. Surely the most important thing is to instil a love of learning from a self motivated child or am I missing something?