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Primary education

Join our Primary Education forum to discuss starting school and helping your child get the most out of it.

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Original poster

2006 league tables published for primary schools

47 replies

ParanoidSurreyHousewife · 07/12/2006 09:48

Daren't post anything "In the News"! But they're on the BBC news site here .

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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PollyannaInExcelcis · 10/12/2006 19:59

oh no, the school I am applying for is top of the lists in our area - it was well mid table last year and undersubscribed - I was really hoping it would be this year too (we will probably not get in now )

popsycal · 10/12/2006 20:01

Value added is a minefield
Could talk at length about it ....but won't bore you

southeastastra · 11/12/2006 11:10

my son's school has done very badly i really don't know what to make of it

batters · 11/12/2006 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

janinlondon · 11/12/2006 11:42

Me too batters!

batters · 11/12/2006 11:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gingerbear · 11/12/2006 11:51

DD's is in the bottom of all the schools in England, but there were 27% SENs taking KS2.

My main concern is the school's record on consistantly poor Maths results. The Maths teaching has been dreadful for years, and it seems there has been no effort to improve it. What can be done?

LindzDelirium · 11/12/2006 13:27

100.8 in VA score, AVP score 29.9 at dd's school. Consistently good. I'm happy. (Although ex Beacon school so very high standards to live up to).

dinny · 13/12/2006 09:50

spicedfennel - sounds like our school. are you in the se?

HEIFERmerryxmasandhappyMOOyear · 13/12/2006 10:22

Can someone help me please.

I don't really understand these league tables. DD not yet in school.

But I know that we are not happy with our local schools and have decided to move away (3hrs away)..

This is our local schools results

100.3 220 26.8

This is our preferred choice when we move

100.9 297 30.7

Is there a big difference between the schools results? Our gut feeling is that the school we are hoping for is so much better, but as I said I really don't understand the league tables at all...

Clary · 13/12/2006 12:39

heifer the first figure you quote is the value added - ie the improvement between Key Stage one results (at age 7) and KS2 (which is what these tables show). 100 is the average here. Anything above 101 is pretty good FWIW.

But as someone says further down, if a school does well at KS1 that doesn?t leave much room for improvement.

The next figure is the average score out of 100 for the three subjects - English, maths and science, so out of a max of 300. So yr preferred choice is doing a lot better there. Not sure what the final figure is.

But pls remember that things such as numbers of pupils taking the tests and numbers with SEN can make a huge difference. The top performing school in our area scored 297 - number of pupils with SEN - 0! Not a school I would want my child to go to as it?s very pushy and they ?refuse? places to SEN pupils, it is alleged (ie they say ?Yr child may be better suited at this other school where they don?t care so much about their league table standing)..

Spicedfennelwine · 13/12/2006 12:41

dinny, no we're in Devon.

Original poster

ParanoidSurreyHousewife · 13/12/2006 13:04

Heifer - I'd ignore the Value added measure. It matter more in schools which have a low-attaining intake.

The next number tells you the total percentage for all 3 subjects of the children who attained a level 4 (which is the expected standard at the end of Key stage 2 ie Year 6). So 300 means that all children got to the required level in all subjects, and by clicking on the school you should see how this was split between the 3 subjects. Now bear in mind these statics will include anyone with SEN, so schools with no SEN children will typically get higher scores anyway.

The final score is for me the most interesting - average points per pupil. Now a level 4 equates to 27 points, whereas a Level 5 equates to 33 points. So you could have 2 schools each with 290 say , but one with an average points of 27 and the other 31, indicating that at the second school about 2/3 of the pupils were at Level 5 (so definitely equating to a good prep school say).

In terms of the specific scores you are looking at, the final score indicates that thre is more than a 4 point difference in the average points per pupil in each subject, which is an impressive difference (equating to 2/3 of a whole level), so I suspect that you're making the right choice. But you need to consider results over a number of years. not just the latest ones, consider what impact staff changes may habe, and just ensure that you have an understanding of what is making the school a "good school2 in your opinion. Is it because they weed out SEN children, or is it just a better catchment? If it is down to a good head and staff then are there any obvious retirements planned?

OP posts:

Clary · 13/12/2006 13:11

PSH yes of course you are right about the 300 score, it's a percentage. But the point is that the nearer 300 it is the better the pupils have done (but not necessarily the better the school as you eloquently point out)

Original poster

ParanoidSurreyHousewife · 13/12/2006 13:40

No it doesn't - that its my point. It tells you what percentage attained a particular level (Level 4). The APS is a better measure at telling you how well the pupils have achieved.

If a school has 50 children in the year and 49 got level 4 and one got Level 3 in each subject, then their AGG would be 294 (assuming that my maths isn't screwed up).

Another school with 25 pupils but 24 of whom get Level 5 with one child getting Level 3 would have an AGG of 288. So despite significantly better results, would be lower down the league table.

I can't be bothered to work out the exact APS for each school, but the first one would be just below 27 and the second one would be pretty close to 33. And for any school with an APS of 30 or above, at least half the scores must have been Level 5 or more.

Personally, as a mother who hopes that she has bright kids, the APS is key for me, AGG is interesting, and VA would only interest me if I was looking at schools with high numbers of SEN or English as second language say. Obviously the Government is interested in the AGG as it is their measure as to whether children meet a particular target, but actually I want my children to be attaining their fullest potential.

OP posts:

Clary · 13/12/2006 13:56

PSW you put it very well.

I think I have paid less attention than I might because I am more interested in other things (like which scool is in walking distance lol).

HEIFERmerryxmasandhappyMOOyear · 13/12/2006 16:09

thanks for the breakdown... Hadn't thought about things like number of children or special educations needs children etc...

Although I want DD to do well, I certainly don't want her to go to a school that would decline SN children..

So I have taken a further look at the details..

Our preffered school had
36 eligible (16.7% specials eductional needs)

Our current local school had
45 eligble (31% special eductional needs)..

I am pleased that the 1st seem to do well, has smaller class size (happy with that), and does except SEN children...

Looks like we have made the right decision then.. Although like to point out our moving isn't solely based on schooling...

HEIFERmerryxmasandhappyMOOyear · 13/12/2006 16:12

what does Special Eductional Needs actually mean... I thought 31% was high for a local school, but having looked at our regional tables, the lowest school has 97% SEN....

Don't understand why, it is a primary school in a very rough area of the town, but how come so many SEN children???

Spicedfennelwine · 13/12/2006 16:13

Clary, we moved from a school with good SATS and facilities to our dinky one without any SATS results so that we could walk there. am hoping it was a sensible move.

Clary · 13/12/2006 16:19

heifer 97% SEN is very high. Are you sure it wasn?t a special school (sorry if stupid question). Or is it a very small intake...but even then....
typically in our patch a school may have, say, 40 taking the tests and 4-5 with SEN. That?s 10% isn?t it?

Fennel does yr school have no SATS because it is too small for them to be published? I certainly like my kids to walk to school. I also have a (new and controversial) theory that for DS1 at least it might be good for him to be in a school where the children achieve less well. He is flying in numeracy because he is OK at it and thus at the top of the bottom set (IYSWIM). Whereas in literacy...sigh....(bottom of the bottom set I think).

Spicedfennelwine · 13/12/2006 16:27

I think it has no SATS because it was a first school until two years ago so the oldest children are now yr5. And it is small, only about 10-15 children in a year, and from what someone says earlier on this thread that may mean it doesn't have SATS.

So it's hard to measure it academically for these reasons. But it has small classes 16-20 which has to be good, I guess.

Clary · 13/12/2006 17:49

If the number is less than 10, yes, they are not published. Not even to parents I guess. They still do them I am sure and the individual parents are told.

Anyway as you might have guessed from my earlier posts I don't think SATs are the only true marker of a school I would want my child to go to....

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